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Hi Trainst - welcome to ThePOGG.com!

I'll contact Lucky 247 and see what I can find out.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi Trainst,

Just to keep you in the loop - I have established contact with someone at Lucky247 and am discussing this issue with them now.

I'll let you know when I know more.

ThePOGG

Hi Trainst,

Sorry this has taken so long. 

I've had a final response from Lucky247 regarding this issue. As far as they're concerned you've violated the following term;

<blockquote style="border: 2px solid #666;padding: 10px;background-color: #ccc"><p>"Any bonus and winnings will be forfeited if a player has an active bonus and moves after winning from low weighted games like table games, to high weighted games like slots (or first bets high and then low with a stake not in proportion to the balance) for the sole purpose of completing wagering requirements. This will be judged at the sole discretion of the casino after reviewing the gameplay."</p></blockquote>

During previous complaints I've spent a good amount of time helping Lucky247 clarify their bonus abuse terms and conditions. This particular term was one that I expressed concern about. 

The issue here is that Lucky247 feel that by dropping your stake from 19.50/spin to 10/spin after a win you have "first bets high and then low with a stake not in proportion to the balance". As a strict interpretation - and depending on acceptance that "in proportion to the balance" means that if the balance goes up the player's bet can only go up - I suppose you have. You bet high, won and then reduced your bet - as your balance went up but your bet went down that would in a mathematical sense not be in proportion to your balance. However given that you've not even halved your bet and significantly a bet of 10/spin when you only have a balance in the low thousands is still a substantially risky proposition I don't feel it's arguable that your bets were disproportionate.

I ran a quick simulation on the slots game Loaded on the calculators at <a href="http://www.beatingbonuses.com/simulator_java.htm" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Beating Bonuses</a> and got the following results;

<img src="http://thepogg.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/loaded-variance.jpg"></img>

For those less mathematically inclined what the above graph shows is that when wagering 5000 with a starting balance of 2000 at 10 credits per spin on average you'll lose 185.91. However 33% of the time the player would experience a loss of between 185.91 and 1248. 17% of the time (1 in 6 times) the player will experience a loss of between 1248 and 2000. Overall the chances the player will lose their entire balance is 2.73% - so wagering 5000 at a stake of 10 credits per spin would result in a loss of the entire balance 1 in every 37 times. That's far from an insubstantial chance of busting never mind a far larger chance of a large but not busting loss.

This being the case, I cannot consider a bet of 10 credits per spin out of proportion with the balance, regardless of whether or not the wager decreased after a win. A bet out of proportion with the balance would result in a low chance of a substantial loss and this bet certainly did not achieve that.

In my opinion "in proportion to the balance" should be considered to mean that the bets should not be lowered to the point where the player is exposed to an unrealistically low level of risk after engaging in high risk strategies. Personally I'd prefer to see that precisely defined in the form that other casinos do, by stipulating what percentage drop is considered unacceptable, but I have in previous cases supported casino's in their enforcement of vague terms where the drop in stake has been in the 80-90% range and has clearly presented a bet that was out of sink risk wise to the playing balance. As a crass example, if a player was betting 100 credits per hand on Blackjack then - upon winning several thousand credits - dropped their stake to 5 or 10 credits per hand, I think it's fairly arguable that the player is no longer playing with a stake that's in "proportion to [their] balance". 

Given that your drop in bet size wasn't even 50% and that your lower bet size still produced a credible threat to your balance, in my opinion Lucky247's enforcement of this term simply doesn't hold water.

Based on what I can only view as an unfair confiscation of funds, I can no longer support or endorse Lucky247 and as such they've been moved to 'Not Recommended' status.

To be fair to Lucky247, they recently paid 3 players who submitted complaints to this site where confiscation took place based on vague terms. These 3 player I subsequently came to believe - due to the timing of the submissions of the complaints and the lack of any similar issues at other mediation sites - were in fact one player running multiple account and I know Lucky247 were rather unhappy that they'd paid these players. The short story here is I feel I burned my credibility capital with this particular casino on undeserving players and I stated as much in each of those reports. Had that not happened I feel it would have been more likely that this case could have reached a fair conclusion, so in no small way I feel it's only proper to acknowledge that I hold some of the blame for this failure.

Sorry I could not have been of more help.

ThePOGG

Lucky247 casino unfairly confiscated this player's winnings and as such have been moved to Not Recommended status.

Hello ThePogg,
 
 First of all I want to say that I am a big admirer of your work on this website and I follow it regularly. This is one of the reasons that I chose to play at Lucky247. I like Microgamming casino's but the ones's reputable are only a few left. So after reading your review on them I thought to give them a try.
 
 On 23th July I created an account with them. I have made a total of 7 deposits(1550 euro) in which I think at least one was without bonus. After I made my first and second deposit I was getting a lot of offers from them on my mobile and e-mail. Some times I deposited and get a bonus even though I didn't expect one. So I kept playing with them until on my last deposit on 1th August I get a win of 2400 euro.
 
 I deposited 200 euro and got 100 euro bonus and I played Hitman slots with total stake 19.5 and Break Away with 10 stake where the majority of the win was on the slots Break Away. After withdrawing  I was requested to send documents. I have sent them and they accepted them and said they will process my withdrawal. After a while later they said I have to send them my bank details as the first withdrawal must be controlled by the bank and they have to call me to verify me. I sent them my bank details and suitable hours for them to call me. They did and on the phone they said now the withdrawal will be processed except I have to introduce my bank details myself. On the next day the following message I received from them:
 
  
 
 Thank you for choosing Lucky247 Casino.
 
 We have reviewed your gameplay prior to your withdrawal, upon review, it was found that you had breached the terms and conditions which you had agreed to.
 
 Please refer to our general Terms &amp; Conditions on the website for your ease of reference
 
 hxxps://www.lucky247.com/terms-and-conditions
 
  
 
 Refer to condition 19.9 – Irregular Gameplay
 
 Before any withdrawals are processed, Your play will be reviewed for any irregular playing patterns. In the interests of fair gaming, equal, zero or low margin bets or hedge betting, shall all be considered irregular gaming for bonus play-through requirement purposes. Other examples of irregular game play include but are not limited to, placing single bets equal to or in excess of 20% or more of the value of the bonus credited to their account until such time as the wagering requirements for that bonus have been met. For the purposes of this rule, a bet is defined as one roulette spin or one dealer's dealt hand in any table game, or one deal in any Video or Power Poker game (this includes Multi-Hand/Play games). Any double or gamble shall be considered a new betShould the Casino deem that irregular game play has occurred; the Casino reserves the right to withhold any withdrawals and/or confiscate all winnings.
 
 Any bonus and winnings will be forfeited if a player has an active bonus and moves after winning from low weighted games like table games, to high weighted games like slots (or first bets high and then low with a stake not in proportion to the balance) for the sole purpose of completing wagering requirements. This will be judged at the sole discretion of the casino after reviewing the gameplay.
 
  
 
 Furthermore this includes but is not limited to Moving from a low weighted game to a high weighted game after large wins for the purpose of clearing wagering requirements.
 
  
 
 Example: “You place at least one bet on any game in the above list weighted at 25% or less, win 100% more than your stake and move your original stake and winnings to a game in the above list weighted at 100% in order to meet wagering requirements."
 
  
 
 On each withdrawal there is a review of gameplay done. During this review of your withdrawal, your gameplay was found to be irregular. As per the term of our site, irregular gameplay can lead to the confiscation of your winnings. The irregular gameplay is in no means referring to the maximum bet allowed during gameplay with an active bonus. The term which you have been found in violation of is directly referring to the nature of your bets placed.
 
 It is in this regard that your withdrawal of €2600 has thus been confiscated and your deposit of €200 and bonus of €100 returned to your gaming account.
 
 Should you require any further assistance, feel free to contact us at any time as we are available 24/7..
 
 Best regards,
 
 [EDIT]
 
 
 
 After I replied :
 
 Hello
 
 What have I done wrong exactly? I read the terms before I started playing. My bets did not exceed the limit.
 It must be a mistake.Can you please help me understand why I was unable to withdrawal? 
 
 Thank you
 
 
 
 And they said :
 
 Hi [EDIT]
 Thank you for choosing Lucky247 Casino.
 
 Please be advised that the term in breach is the 20% rule in which you have bet more than 20% of the bonus received in a single bet.
 Should you require any further assistance, feel free to contact us at any time as we are available 24/7 at your convenience.
 
  
 
 Regards,
 
 [EDIT]
 
 
 
 
 So first I want to criticize the way they communicated with me. Why not tell me upfront of all the requirements for a first withdrawal but give them in pieces and after all was provide it, confiscate my money anyway. This looks like a stalling tactic and not the work of a "player focused" casino as you described them. And when asking for the specific reasons of the funds confiscation after a vague reason " the nature of your bets" they said "You broke the 20% rule" which I clearly did not break. Only judging by this fact I feel that the Review you gave them doesn't reflect the true reality. This sends a big message of their unprofessionalism and winners not welcome policy.
 
 I feel very strongly that I have been mistreated and wronged here so I would appreciate any help from you.
 
 My username at the casino and e-mail address are below:
 
 username: [EDIT]
 mail: [EDIT]

Lucky247 - Funds confiscated

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