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Ace Live Casino - Great casino but made an error

Ruling

Found for the Player - Ace Live casino have confiscated the player's funds based on a vague 'spirit of the bonus' term. This is absolutely unacceptable behaviour and we strongly encourage players to avoid Ace Live casino. These sort of terms can be interpreted in any way which suits the casino and as such can be used to justify the confiscation of legitimate winnings as happened here.

Player's Complaint

I have been playing at Ace Live Casino for a few months and really enjoy it. I love the live tables because there can be no doubt about fairness and honesty, unlike some software there has been in the news this year. I had my first big win at Ace Live Casino quite recently and they have told me today that they do not want to pay me the winnings. I think they may have jumped the gun on this decision and it seems very out of character for a professional establishment like this. But I can understand that there are people out to get them in this business and they must work hard to filter out the good and the bad. This is their reasons (copied and pasted) for not paying me:

In summary:

  • You only deposit when there is a 100% match bonus available.
  • After depositing and receiving your bonus you wager your entire balance on 1 or 2 spins of roulette in an effort to maximize a win with bonus funds. This is very unusual bankroll management for a genuine player and is classic behavior of bonus abusers.
  • If you win your first few spins, you seek only to meet the wagering requirement at which point you request a withdrawal, profiting from the use of bonus funds.

The thing is they have said much that is true, but the context must be very important here. I only deposit when there is a bonus. But they have such great bonuses and it seems like every 2 days they are inviting me back to play again with another generous bonus. So I keep coming back! They are enticing me in with their bonus offer all the time.

It's also true that I bet my balance in 1 or 2 roulette spins, (whichever I feel like doing at the time, its not always the same because it is not a method). But to play the bonus you are allowed only to play live roulette and you are not allowed to place Black/Red, Even/Odd, Low/High, Dozens and Columns bets. You cannot place more than 1 X 25 chip on a single number either. There is very little option left in the entire casino but to play just a few numbers on this roulette game. The gameplay is really narrowed down but it is ok for me because I love to play roulette and I know it is not the best game for a low house edge but I just prefer it.

Like they say, I must admit, it is my hope to win big. It is always my hope to win big when I gamble, whether it be roulette, betting on horse racing or playing poker with my friends. I cannot deny this but it's just a gamblers state of mind in my opinion. I don't think it is unusual bank roll management though. I don't really see it as management, its just playing. We all have our own ways of playing. Maybe Martingale is more usual but I don't like to play a system.

And it is true I only request a withdrawal after I have completed the wagering requirements but I cannot do so before. These are the rules. I would not want to be penalised for withdrawing after the wagering requirements have been met. They are quite high anyway at 40 X deposit and bonus. There comes a point way before the end of the wagering when you want to withdraw. But you can't so you have to keep going to the end. The roulette table will always win the long run. Bonus or no bonus, the reason I won is because I was lucky and my lucky number came in.

I have visited this casino many times and never had my winnings confiscated or account locked before. This has only occurred when I found myself with a big win.

Personally, I still have faith in this casino to fix things and I would like to continue playing there. If there are some new rules they wish to add to their terms and conditions I am sure I could abide by them in the future.

Username : [EDIT]

Read the casino review

3 Responses

ThePOGG
August 6, 2013

Hi thejk - thanks for getting in contact!

Having read over your complaint, and reviewed Ace Live's terms and conditions - assuming that there's no further details to the case - context really has nothing to do with this issue. Simply put, while Ace Live may not like the way you've played, there is no clear term to prohibit what you were doing.

Let me speak to them and I'll see what I can do. Before I can do that though, I'll need you to provide your username and the email address you use at Ace Live so they can find your account.

Thanks again.

ThePOGG

ThePOGG
August 7, 2013

Apologies thejk - I failed to notice that you'd included your username in a separate submission.

I'll try contacting Ace Live now.

ThePOGG

ThePOGG
August 10, 2013

Hi thejk,

Ace Live have given me their final decision on this issue and I'll be straight with you and say I'm far from happy with it.

In the opinion of Ace Live casino and their software provider Visionary iGaming the style of play that you engaged in is "abusive" and as such contravenes term 11.1 of their terms and conditions which is as follows;

"11.1 All our promotions are designed for those genuine players who may be interested in continuing their membership and playing at the casino and are not averse to betting with and gambling their own money. Any and all promotion may be considered void at any moment to those persons or groups suspected of abuse or having a record of promotional abuse or fraud at Ace Live Casino or with any of their merchant affiliates. Any winnings accrued by such persons or groups shall be considered null and void and shall be withheld."

Now I've spent a good amount of time discussing with their team the fact that the above term does not define exactly what constitutes abuse and as such cannot be considered a valid term.

Without definition of the word "abuse" the player cannot be expected to know what sort of behaviour is prohibited prior to engagement in play and the casino is free to interpret the rule as best suits them after a substantial win. And that's exactly what has happened in this case.

Essentially Ace Live's problem is that you've bet big to begin with and then reduced your wager when you won to complete the wagering requirement. I've pointed out that there's nothing in their rules to prohibit such behaviour and I've also pointed out that there are plenty of examples of other casinos implementing rules to prohibit this betting pattern.

To say they are unresponsive to these comments would misrepresent the situation - they are perfectly happy to respond and acknowledge both of the above points, but will not change their stance on this case.

The long and short of this case is that - in the opinion of ThePOGG.com - Ace Live casino are enforcing rules that they do NOT have in their contract. This is exactly what is meant by a 'spirit of the bonus' confiscation and is absolutely unacceptable.

I can only apologize to thejk for my lack of success in getting their fairly won money returned to them - up to this point this mediation service has been very successful in these types of cases, but it has been made abundantly clear that Ace Live will not change their mind.

For all other players, I would strongly recommend not engaging with Ace Live's product. Until this group step up to the plate and treat their player's fairly it's not worth the risk.

I would also note that it's far from surprising to see this type of behaviour from a casino licensed in Costa Rica. Online casino regulation is far from where it should be right now, but holding a license in Costa Rica is a license in name only, i.e. the Costa Rican government's only stipulation when awarding a license is that the group not accept Costa Rican players. There are no other requirements in terms of fair treatment of players or fairness testing of software.

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Agreement

julian kay consented for ThePOGG to act on their behalf and share the personal information that they provide to ThePOGG with the following agencies for the purposes of resolving their complaint:

August 6, 2013

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland sits to the north-west of mainland Europe. The United Kingdom shares a border with The Republic of Ireland and has coasts on the Atlantic Ocean, Celtic Sea, North Sea, Irish Sea and English Channel. The population of the UK is approaching the 67.6 million mark leading to a fairly densely populated land mass. The gambling sector in the United Kingdom is entirely regulated and licensed by the UKGC – the United Kingdom Gambling Commission. Should players resident In the UK wish to gamble with foreign based operators there is no history of this being treated as a criminal offence, but high levels of protection exist for UK residents playing with UK licensed operators.