BETAT - Casino refusing to refund me while self exclusion on sister site is in effect
Ruling
Declined - As Alternative Dispute Resolution services are prevented from managing complaints against UKGC licensed operators that involve Self-Exclusion issues, we have to decline this complaint.
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Player's Complaint
I registered at BETAT Casino on the (29th of March 2016).
I had made numerous deposits at BETAT before realizing I was self excluded from there sister site "Slottyvegas", The request for self exclusion was made on (13/06/2015).
I talked to there Livechat, I was advised that i didn't qualify to be refunded since i used a different email address. Which is hard to believe, no the less my place of residence, address / contact information were the same.
I argued that its was unintentional, a big mistake, They didn't comprehend my complaint. I was accused first hand of having a "gambling problem". Which is not true, It was a common mistake and primarily common sense to contact them, to make them aware of my situation. Which is that I was excluded from one of there brands in the NRR Entertainment Group.
However they presumed it was totally my fault, Which is not the case, all the licencor information is small printed. I wear glasses which makes it hard for me to see letters from a certain distance.
They are obligated and instructed to deny me registration. I had played over a course of 2 days. They had enough time act upon the situation and advise me that I was not allowed to play there while the self exclusion was in effect, but I was allowed to make mass numbers of deposits which were undetected. What I find hard to believe.
It was disputed that my phone number was not the same, which is correct. however that's personal to me. what gives them the right make that accusation. It's been over 9 months since I made the exclusion at Slottyvegas and some of them details are presumably outdated which absurd.
Subsequently, I believe they had enough information to stop me but they didn't and allowed me to spend money. Which makes them responsible, so forth they appear to deny everything but I presume they will however I can provide any information they require.
I never made duplicate accounts, I undoubtedly signed up to a casino with a high reputation. which happens to be the same group respectively which I didn't know at the time.
"I will now provide a summary of in-depth conversations providing detailed explanations from my perspective"
Me: The first conversation i had with "[CASINO REP 1]" -
info: Welcome to Casino Customer Support. An agent will be with you shortly.
info: You are now chatting with '[CASINO REP 1]'
info: Your Ticket ID for this chat is LTK171370240128X
[CASINO REP 1]: Hi there
you: Hello, I have been allowed to open an account with you. however i shouldn't off because i am self excluded from slotty vegas which is part of the NRR entertainment brand. Its was a real mistake
[CASINO REP 1]: can I have your email address, please?
you: [EDIT]
[CASINO REP 1]: one moment please
Me: I am now being transferred to on duty manager.
info: Please wait while I transfer the chat to '[CASINO REP 2]'.
info: You are now chatting with '[CASINO REP 2]'
info: Your Ticket ID for this chat is LTK171370240128X
[CASINO REP 2]: Hi there. Im [CASINO REP 2] from the account opening team
you: Hello
[CASINO REP 2]: Hi [EDIT]. My colleague [CASINO REP 1] has explained the situation
Me: "[CASINO REP 1]" Never explained nothing to me, literally [CASINO REP 2] presumed he had. tactics that casino's use to bewilder the customers from aggravating the situation and presuming they are correct.
[CASINO REP 2]: You did indeed open a BETAT account after self-excluding on SlottyVegas however you chose to open your BETAT account using a different email address than that used to register your account at SlottyVegas
UKGC: Social responsibility code provision 3.5.1 -
Paragraph 5.
"Licensees" must close any customer accounts of an individual who has entered a self exclusion agreement and return any funds held in the customer account. It is not sufficient merely to prevent an individual from withdrawing funds from their customer account whilst still accepting wagers from them. Where the giving of credit is permitted, the licensee may retain details of the amount owed to them by the individual, although the account must not be active.
Me: Licensees meaning "NRR Entertainment Limited" whom hold the licence. When i was excluded from "slottyvegas", I never received a exclusion form on paper / electronically.
Ordinary code provision 3.5.2 Paragraph (1.)
UKGC: Self-exclusion procedures should require individuals to take positive action in order to self exclude.
This can be a signature on a self-exclusion form
I never signed an exclusion form, technically i am not bound to there exclusion policy only what the UKGC have provided in good practice for casino's to follow which deems there polices inefficient with UKGC's guidelines.
Social responsibility code provision 3.5.1 Paragraph 6 (A.)
A register of those excluded with appropriate records (name, address, other details and any membership or account details that may be held by the operator)
Me: UKGC's social responsibility code paragraph 6 (A.) does not mention specific details like "email address" however the essential details, name, address were all correct.
Paragraph (8.) of this provision comes into force on 31 October 2015
Customers must be given the opportunity to self-exclude by contacting customer services and in addition by entering an automated process using remote communication. In order to avoid inadvertent self-exclusion it is acceptable for an automated process to include an additional step that requires the customer to confirm that they wish to self-exclude. The licensee must ensure that all staff who are involved in direct customer service are aware of the self-exclusion system in place, and are able to direct that individual to an immediate point of contact with whom/which to complete that process.
Me: When i made the choice to exclude myself from "slottyvegas" it was done over livechat,
I never confirmed the decision with an additional step process, it was manually done by the representative.
Paragraph (7.) Ordinary code provision 3.5.4
Please note that the Commission does not require the licensee to carry out any particular assessment or make any judgement as to whether the previously self-excluded individual should again be permitted access to gambling. The requirement to take positive action in person or over the phone is purely to a) check that the customer has considered the decision to access gambling again and allow them to consider the implications; and b) implement the one day cooling-off period and explain why this has been put in place.
Me: As stated above the exclusion was made solely by the representative. It was instant, I never received a one day cool off neither a phone call to make sure the decision was final which is against the rules provided by the UKGC.
I cannot find any records that betat.co.uk even hold a licence with UKGC - MGA - It seems suspicious there not showing up, Which i will investigate at a later date.
To address this - Please return and refund the deposits / losses in the amount £450
Email / Username - [EDIT]
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Hi lainey58 - welcome to ThePOGG.com!
Unfortunately there’s not going to be anything we can do to help in this instance. As a UKGC Accredited Alternative Dispute Resolution service we’ve have to work within their framework. While we are the appointed ADR for both SlottyVegas and BETAT, all ADR services have now been told to refer problem gambling complaints to the UKGC directly. That being the case, we're not allowed to engage with this type of complaint.
As such if you want your case reviewed further you’ll need to submit it to the UKGC at this email address [email protected]
Our current understanding is that the UKGC will review complaints in a general sense with regard to whether or not their policies need to be updated, but will not assist players in recovering funds in individual cases. To do that I believe that you will have to take the operator to court. I’m currently trying to get further details from the UKGC to assist players that wish to pursue this option.
I’ll let you know as soon as I have more information on that front.
Two comments that I would make regarding your case specifically:
1) In no complaint situation would your eyesight be a valid justification for not ensuring that you've complied with terms and conditions. You enter into a binding agreement when you confirm at point of sign-up that you've read and understood the terms and conditions. Further to this, the ownership information of the company, while in small print at the bottom of the site, is also in standard print throughout the terms and conditions page including in the very top paragraph.
While this is only one aspect of this case, I point it out to ensure you understand that you need to review the terms and conditions page of any operator that you sign-up to before creating an account. In future complaints it's unlikely you'd receive a favourable ruling if you've agreed to terms and conditions you've not read and subsequently break a rule.
2) Having informally spoken with the NRR group about this issue, they've pointed out that at the time of self-exclusion you were presented with the option to enter additional email addresses to be excluded. Their system would have immediately detected any email address or phone number that matched one already present in their system and prevented registration. My understanding is that only by entering different information in BOTH of these fields would you have been able to register an account at all. For these reasons alongside other factors they have significant concerns about the legitimacy of your claim.
While I would make very clear that we are not in any way passing a ruling on this issue - there are factors in support of both parties - I would suggest that this isn't a clear cut case.
As stated above I'll inform you once we have more information from the UKGC, but for the time being all I can recommend is directing your complaint to the email address detailed above.
Thanks,
ThePOGG
ThePOGG