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BetRealm - Account locked

Ruling

Found for the Casino - BetRealm casino have provided supporting documentation demonstrating that this player has previously signed up multiple accounts at several different PlayPearl brands and, prior to signing up with BetRealm casino has used the fact that they are a UK resident and that PlayPearls do not hold a UKGC license as justification for demanding their lost deposits were refunded.

This shows that the player was well aware of the fact that they were not allowed to play with BetRealm casino prior to signing up. That they've previously used this to get lost deposits returned places the operator in a no-win situation where they would consistently have to return significant losses and pay wins. As such the player's claim has to be viewed as invalid.

That said, it has to be acknowledged that the operator should have had more stringent procedures in place to ensure that players from the UK could not register with their service. Since this complaint, PlayPearl have removed the UK from the list of countries from which a player can register and taken several other steps to ensure the restriction cannot be circumvented.

It should also be acknowledged that this player's abusive behaviour to both this site and the operator were unacceptable. Also the repeated instances of this player using self-exclusion policies at UKGC licensed properties to attempt to reclaim losses indicate a concerning pattern of behaviour where self-exclusion policies are being used in place of rather than alongside personal responsibility.

Player's Complaint

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I signed up and deposited circa 100 euros. I started playing live roulette and was winning. I was suddenly booted from the game and my account was locked. I then had to contact them and ask why. They then asked me for verification, which I promptly provided. My account is still locked, claiming that they are unable to verify my account on a weekend. Their terms and conditions state that accounts are only locked when players refuse or fail to provide documentation, mine was locked prior to even being asked for it. They clearly operate however they please, despite terms and conditions stating that both parties are bound by them. I contacted live chat to protest my stance and clear annoyance, who were unprofessional and simply made up rules, and were unable to point me towards to term or condition that contradicted those I put to them. Here is our latest conversation...

Chat started on 09 Apr 2016, 04:10 PM (GMT+0)

(04:10:17) *** [PLAYER] joined the chat ***

(04:10:17) [PLAYER]: hi can you open my account please

(04:10:38) *** [CASINO REP] joined the chat ***

(04:10:48) [CASINO REP]: Hello! How are you? Welcome to Betrealm Casino!

(04:11:03) [CASINO REP]: [PLAYER] I spoke with you yesterday regarding the conditions of your account.

(04:11:09) [PLAYER]: I have read terms and conditions and it is not routine to just lock a players account. I want to know why this has happened. It states that failure to provide requested documents could result in such

(04:11:21) [PLAYER]: but i have provided requested documents

(04:11:26) [PLAYER]: so why has this happened?

(04:11:42) [CASINO REP]: We went over this in detail yesterday sir.

(04:11:47) [PLAYER]: we didn't

(04:11:53) [PLAYER]: you didn't explain why this had happened

(04:12:19) [PLAYER]: i understand, as per t&c that it is necessary to request documents

(04:12:25) [CASINO REP]: Account verifications are reviewed from Monday through Friday.

(04:12:37) [PLAYER]: however t&C state only failure to provice such results in account lock

(04:12:53) [PLAYER]: also, the items requested were excessive

(04:13:22) [PLAYER]: and according to terems and conditions i was entitled to block the last 4 digits of my card in the documentation

(04:13:35) [PLAYER]: something you failed to tell me in your document request

(04:13:46) [PLAYER]: so i now have a security issue with my credit card

(04:15:19) [CASINO REP]: If you have questions about the terms and conditions or simply disagree with having to send anything that was requested that's another story and would have to be discussed via email directly with the head contact at Play Pearls which are the third party business solution provider and direct contact for Platypus B.V. which licenses Betrealm Casino.

(04:15:48) [PLAYER]: Betrealm Casino reserves the right to perform verification procedures, whether itself or through third parties. If Betrealm Casino founds out that the information provided contains false or misleading information an Account may be blocked or closed permanently. Betrealm Casino reserves the right to request the User to produce official documents to prove his identity. Betrealm Casino also reserves the right to request for address verification by asking for copies of bank statements, utility bills or any other document Betrealm Casino considers fit. If the User refuses, does not produce or we haven't receive any such documents requested in, Betrealm Casino will be entitled to block the Users account or possible close it permanently.

(04:16:01) [PLAYER]: i provided the documents almost imediately

(04:16:10) [PLAYER]: so why block before requesting

(04:16:23) [PLAYER]: why not request then offer me opportunity to respond

(04:16:45) [CASINO REP]: The cashier asked to verify your account.

(04:16:58) [CASINO REP]: Once they claim it is being verified all activity is ceased.

(04:17:04) [PLAYER]: and i didn't refuse or fail to do so

(04:17:11) [CASINO REP]: No deposits, no withdrawals, no further gaming until the account is verified.

(04:17:26) [CASINO REP]: Nobody is saying you refused to send anything.

(04:17:27) [PLAYER]: that isn't what your terms state

(04:17:31) [PLAYER]: this is non routine

(04:17:38) [PLAYER]: this isn't what ylou do to every players

(04:18:05) [CASINO REP]: The cashier team runs account verification procedures on all player accounts.

(04:18:30) [PLAYER]: and the cashier is operating on terms different to the terms and conditions

(04:18:48) [PLAYER]: because only if i fail or refuse to produce said documents can my account be locked

(04:19:10) [PLAYER]: so why is this happening to me? it is clearly non-routine

(04:19:12) [CASINO REP]: The T&Cs actually state that if any recent change is made to such the player or players will be informed by any means necessary.

(04:19:24) [CASINO REP]: Chat conversations with specialists are included on that

(04:19:25) [PLAYER]: and why wasn't i instructed to block out the last 4 digits of my card?

(04:19:52) [CASINO REP]: It's not mandatory yet if you wish to block you can do so.

(04:20:09) [PLAYER]: yet wasn't instructed to

(04:20:21) [PLAYER]: or offered the option to

(04:20:29) [PLAYER]: why is this happening to only me?

(04:20:34) [CASINO REP]: Yes you were

(04:20:44) [PLAYER]: no i wasn't

(04:20:48) [CASINO REP]: This is exactly what was confirmed on that particular aspect regarding cards:

(04:20:49) [PLAYER]: don't lie to me.

(04:20:49) [CASINO REP]: • Copies of the front and back of the credit card used to deposit (you may block out the CVV if you desire)

(04:21:02) [PLAYER]: the ccv

(04:21:13) [CASINO REP]: The CVV is the only portion you may block

(04:21:24) [PLAYER]: not according to the t&c

(04:21:45) [PLAYER]: the t&c state i can block 4 digits from the 16 digit card number

(04:21:54) [PLAYER]: from the front of the card

(04:22:32) [CASINO REP]: As I said before, anything stated among chat or email support not coinciding with the T&Cs is what is deemed as current in protocol procedures at Betrealm Casino.

(04:22:35) [PLAYER]: Betrealm Casino may request for copies of the front and back of the credit card in question, when for the User's own protection from the front of the card all numbers except last 4 digits shall be covered and from the back of the card CVV/CVV2 number shall be covered.

(04:23:09) [PLAYER]: so the t&c apply to me but not to you?

(04:23:22) [PLAYER]: that's not how it works

(04:24:00) [PLAYER]: and the t&c haven't changed, they still say and state the terms i've quoted

(04:24:05) [CASINO REP]: Nope, the apply to everyone including us and if any changes regarding internal business processes are made Betrealm Casino reserves the right to choose how to maintain customers informed of such changes.

(04:24:37) [PLAYER]: but the t&c still say contrary information to those that have been applied to me

(04:24:50) [PLAYER]: so what makes me a special case

(04:25:49) [CASINO REP]: That means that certain processes such as those related to soliciting documentation have recently changed and this is why you have been informed accordingly regarding how the current account verification process is conducted since yesterday when we last spoke.

(04:26:11) [PLAYER]: yet the terms and conditions haven't been updated

(04:26:13) [PLAYER]: how odd

(04:27:01) [PLAYER]: i have lost more at playpearls casinos than i have in my current betrealm balance at present, if this issue isn't addressed immediately i am going to issue chargebacks

(04:28:00) [CASINO REP]: You have been given the time frames sir, for now we must all wait until Monday in order for your documentation to be reviewed.

(04:28:03) [PLAYER]: blocking access to my funds for reasons contrary to t&c despite me having followed verification checks isn't acceptable

(04:28:23) [CASINO REP]: The cashier is closed on weekends, you already know that.

(04:28:23) [PLAYER]: I'm going to call my card provider and explain the situation

(04:28:28) [PLAYER]: strange

(04:28:35) [PLAYER]: because if they were closed last night

(04:28:39) [PLAYER]: then who blocked my account

(04:28:43) [CASINO REP]: Last night there were not closed

(04:28:48) [CASINO REP]: Last night was Friday

(04:28:57) [PLAYER]: i provided docs within minutes

(04:29:00) [PLAYER]: of being blocked

(04:29:21) [CASINO REP]: Your documentation arrived only a couple hours before they closed.

(04:29:29) [PLAYER]: so there was time

(04:29:35) [PLAYER]: this stinks

(04:29:40) [CASINO REP]: Payouts on Friday become their priority.

(04:29:57) [CASINO REP]: 2 hours before closing is not enough time to have your account verification cleared.

(04:30:07) [CASINO REP]: I clearly said that to you yesterday.

(04:30:14) [PLAYER]: so is blocking a new players account that they have deposited funds into good for business

(04:30:22) [PLAYER]: would it have happened had i been losing?

(04:30:38) [PLAYER]: clearly not, as like i said, i lost previously at playpearls

(04:30:44) [PLAYER]: i wasnt asked for i,d once

(04:31:36) [PLAYER]: I suggest somebody from the cashier is contacted and this issue is dealt with

(04:31:39) [PLAYER]: today

(04:31:55) [CASINO REP]: [PLAYER] the last questions you have made bring no benefit to this conversation sir. You are simply not wanting to wait until Monday despite we have given you the time frames for this to be reviewed and right now we are only going in circles confirming everything we confirmed to you yesterday.

(04:32:03) [PLAYER]: because i will not have MY MONEY frozen by you over terms DIFFERENT TO THOSE THAT I AGREED WITH

(04:32:38) [CASINO REP]: I already clarified everything regarding this process.

(04:32:45) [PLAYER]: No you didn't

(04:32:49) [PLAYER]: you bullshitted me

(04:32:56) [PLAYER]: you can't just changed a term and condition

(04:32:58) [PLAYER]: over live chat

(04:33:07) [PLAYER]: without actually changing the terms and conditions

(04:33:42) [PLAYER]: i think you should consider what area i work in before you try to pull the weool over my eyes

(04:33:56) [CASINO REP]: Okay I've just received a warning from our chat admins, your replies have been flagged for abusive language at this moment.

(04:34:13) [PLAYER]: of course

(04:34:19) [CASINO REP]: Do you have any other questions regarding your account or the account verification process that may have not been clarified?

(04:34:20) [PLAYER]: the questioning has become too intense

(04:34:25) [PLAYER]: and your lies are being picked apart

(04:34:33) [CASINO REP]: No, you are using foul language in reality.

(04:34:33) [PLAYER]: so you are trying to leave

(04:34:46) [PLAYER]: the terms and conditions haven't changed

(04:34:58) [PLAYER]: so why are you creating a narrative where they have been

(04:35:07) [PLAYER]: and that i was informed of them on live chat

(04:35:26) [PLAYER]: please quote the t&c where it even states this

(04:35:41) [CASINO REP]: The only thing that has slightly changed is the account verification process.

(04:35:55) [PLAYER]: ok, refer me to this updated t&c

(04:36:02) [PLAYER]: I am on the page now

(04:36:20) [CASINO REP]: There is no update regarding that on the T&Cs sir

(04:36:32) [CASINO REP]: The update is internally managed by the cashier team

(04:36:36) [PLAYER]: 1.4If there is significant changes to these Terms and Conditions, then Betrealm Casino shall notify the User of such changes for example placing of a notice on a prominent position on the Website.

(04:37:06) [PLAYER]: please refer me to prominent position of notification of said change

(04:37:22) [PLAYER]: These Terms and Conditions constitute a binding agreement between Betrealm Casino and the User

(04:37:54) [CASINO REP]: You're on it right now, the chat substitutes a permanent publication on the actual site as in the past chat service was not even available.

(04:38:24) [CASINO REP]: This is why I have repeated over and over that what was disclosed via chat or via email has all the weight that justifies that T&C.

(04:39:11) [PLAYER]: an encrypted chat isn't a prominent place on the website, and you can only notify me of a change prior to me accepting the current t&cs

(04:39:23) [PLAYER]: thereby giving me option to accept the amended terms

(04:39:35) [PLAYER]: (which clearly have not been amended)

(04:40:35) [PLAYER]: you retroactively applied an alleged amended t&c on me, one that is clearly a lie and not an updated t&c

(04:40:39) [PLAYER]: why?

(04:40:49) [CASINO REP]: The moment you agree to the terms and conditions you confirm to abide to the T&Cs as well as any internal protocol procedures disclosed by an actual employee.

(04:41:19) [PLAYER]: instead of typing nonesense please quote the T&Cs that are binding between us

(04:41:29) [PLAYER]: you're making it up as you go along

(04:41:41) [PLAYER]: this is not how binding agreements work

(04:42:34) [PLAYER]: just searched the terms and conditions page for "actual employee", no results found

(04:44:27) [CASINO REP]: You assumed the word employee was stated there and I was only giving you an actual statement based on my knowledge of the terms and conditions and the internal business practices confirmed by management for all departments.

(04:44:53) [PLAYER]: ok instead of doing that, refer to the terms and conditions to which myself and betrealm are bound by

(04:45:06) [PLAYER]: and justify the treatment of myself using these terms and conditions

(04:47:04) [CASINO REP]: For that matter you would have to discuss any disagreement you have regarding the T&Cs with management via email. I as well as any other chat agent and employee for Betrealm am trained to give you dedicated support solving any matters pertaining to your account.

(04:47:26) [CASINO REP]: I am obliged to proceed with giving any instructions provided by the cashier team as well when needed.

(04:47:55) [PLAYER]: i don;t have any disagreement regarding the t&cs - i have a disagreement with the fact that they are not being applied to me

(04:48:04) [PLAYER]: please have management call me

(04:48:10) [CASINO REP]: So, if you consider that all of this account verification is invalid or unfair then you would follow up separately.

(04:48:34) [PLAYER]: i consider it contrary to the t&cs

(04:49:02) [PLAYER]: as I haven't refused or failed to provide the documentation, which are the scenarios in which an account may be blocked

(04:49:13) [PLAYER]: mine was blocked prior to being requeted

(04:49:22) [PLAYER]: please have management call me

(04:50:08) [CASINO REP]: You'll have to send an email sir

(04:50:17) [CASINO REP]: Nothing more that can be done regarding that.

(04:50:41) [PLAYER]: i am extremely concerned, especially after having retroactively read about other play issues within your casino group, so if i haven't spoken to managed, by telephone, tonight, or had my account access restored, tonight, then i am calling my credit card company

(04:50:54) [CASINO REP]: If anybody in management is willing to give you a call then that will be in their judgement to decide.

(04:50:59) [PLAYER]: and contesting all transactions to playpearls for breach of t&c

(04:51:31) [PLAYER]: so if you can contact nanagement and ask them to call me

(04:51:37) [PLAYER]: that would be good of you

(04:52:31) [PLAYER]: i feel you're making little effort to resolve what is clearly a very sensitive issue, you have acted against our agreed and binding t&cs, blocking access to my account with my funds in

(04:52:45) [PLAYER]: i do not want to worry until monday

(04:52:50) [PLAYER]: i want to resolve this now

(04:54:33) [CASINO REP]: Because of the fact that you are trying to impose actions that are not even possible to achieve at this time such as clearing the account verification today, threatening to contact your local bank to request a charge back can be seen as a form of fraud due to the fact that nobody here at Betrealm Casino has confirmed you will not be able to play again or have your funds back. So, due to that last statement you made I am going to send an email to upper management letting them know of this and to also have them consider getting in touch with you as soon as possible to get to the bottom of this. Nevertheless, you may rest assure you will definitely be hearing back from us [PLAYER].

(04:55:57) [PLAYER]: We have an agreed set of t&cs that you have attempted to change and retroactively apply to me

(04:56:08) [PLAYER]: that is fraud

(04:56:32) [CASINO REP]: Nobody is changing anything, the only thing where change has been confirmed to be made was with internal processes and nothing more.

(04:57:17) [PLAYER]: no the change was made that my account was blocked for verification for 3 days minimum, before i was even requested for verifications

(04:57:29) [PLAYER]: i had to contact you to ask why it was blocked

(04:57:44) [CASINO REP]: The chat admins have given the order to revoke your privilege from using the chat services due to the outcome of this conversation. Please feel free to follow up on any further matters related to your account or the account verification via email throughout our email support team. Thank you for your time and have a nice day!

(04:57:51) *** [PLAYER] left the chat ***

I am very concerned that they have locked my account with hundreds in it, whilst being so aloof to my concerns that I had followed terms and conditions and still had an account block imposed on me without good reason. Please help me resolve this otherwise my only option is seemingly chargebacks. I wish I'd read about other player's issues at this group of casinos before ever playing here!

Read the casino review

13 Responses

User icon
ThePOGG
April 9, 2016

Hi leethompson - welcome back!

Having read the chat conversation I'm afraid to say that you don't have a case in this instance. While the terms and conditions do state that if you refuse or fail to provide the required ID your account will be blocked, that's not relevant to your case. As you rightly point out you have provided ID so this term has no bearing here.

However the terms and conditions do not make any assurances that your ID will be verified within any specific time frame nor do they state that your account will remain open while verification is taking place.

Much like your last complaint here, I think most of this issue comes down to patience. You're familiar enough with online gambling that you know account verification takes place and you'll be aware that it takes time to conclude. It's far from unusual for ID verification to take a few days and certainly isn't unusual for the security department not to work weekends.

I'd also strongly caution you against threatening to issue chargebacks. That's likely to get your account permanently closed and some operators even have terms that state that they'll retain balances if you make threats along these lines.

Finally, your last complaint related to a self-exclusion. That being the case, as soon as you're ID has been verified I would strongly encourage you to withdraw your funds and close your account.

If there's further issues with your account after you've given BetRealm reasonable time to review and confirm you ID feel free to bring this issue back to us.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

User icon
ThePOGG
April 10, 2016

Hi leethompson,

While I understand that you were trying to motivate the operator to deal with your verification more quickly, in threatening to issue a chargeback is a very risky way of doing this and what you were looking to happen simply wasn't going to happen regardless of the threat issued.

I realise it's frustrating and I agree that locking your account without telling your the reason is poor customer service (this has happen to me in the past and I understand how annoying this can be) there really is nothing that will change this situation until such time as security have reviewed your documentation.

Given the relationship that's now developed with this operator my only suggestion would be that when your account is reopened you withdraw your funds. The threats of issuing a chargeback will likely have your account flagged as high risk meaning that it'll be subject to greater scrutiny than a normal account.

ThePOGG

User icon
ThePOGG
April 12, 2016

Hi leethompson,

If you provide me with your username and email address at BetRealm I'll contact the operator and see what I can find out. "Illegal activity" may be casino lingo for "broke a bonus term". For this reason it'd be useful to know a) whether you played with a bonus b) how much you deposited and c) what games and bet sizes you were using.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

User icon
leethompson
April 12, 2016

I didn't use a bonus, my username is [EDIT] and registered email address is [EDIT]. My deposit was 100 euros. They asked for copies of cards used on other sites in their networks which I provided straight away. I have used a couple of credit cards and debit cards across their network so maybe that triggered it? Either way nobody wants to take responsibility as to why the account is still lockp, who is dealing with it, what the allegations actually are etc. Please help!

User icon
ThePOGG
April 12, 2016

Hi leethompson,

Thanks for that, but you haven't answered the third question I asked.

How much were you betting? What bets were you placing (red/black, straight-up etc)? Were you using a progression betting system?

Thanks,

ThePOGG

User icon
leethompson
April 12, 2016

Apologies, no I wasn't using a system. I was mixing my bets up quite a lot. I was betting various amounts in relation to my balance (which was up and down quite a bit as you can imagine, going from 100 euros to 1906 euros) and as to what the previous numbers were. There wasn't any progressive betting. I don't generally bet on even money shots, i place heavily around the middle row and column using splits/corners etc. I was playing for a good few hours and mixing my play up quite a bit so it's a difficult question to answer. But no, no progressive betting systems or systems whatsoever.

User icon
leethompson
April 12, 2016

Their live chat basically bans me now for asking for updates, everybody else wants to point the finger at a different, uncontactable department. I've a lot of money at playpearls casinos over the years so this has really narked me. I've even given them my phone number several times and asked them to call me to tell me what the issue is. Nobody does. Absolute rogues.

User icon
leethompson
April 12, 2016

Contacted their stated license provider who replied with this

Dear Sir,

Thank you for contacting Curaçao eGaming. Please be advised that we do not license this entity. Its seems they are operating under Curaçao Interactive Licensing., a different license holder.

However we do see that they have fraudulently made use of our Logo of Curaçao eGaming. Our technical team will be contacting this group to have this taken down.

Regards,

Curaçao eGaming

Who are these jokers? I'm pretty sure I'm not getting paid off these cowboys, it's looking like the charge back route against their casinos that I have used over the last few months, even if that will leave me over 1k less than my pending withdrawal.

User icon
ThePOGG
April 13, 2016

Hi leethompson,

I think you'd be best allowing me some time to contact the operator. If they're non-responsive I can look into contacting CIL for you.

Give me some time,

ThePOGG

User icon
ThePOGG
April 15, 2016

Hi leethompson,

After extensive conversation with the operator in this case, this issue will be closed in favour of the operator.

PlayPearls have provided full communication records with you over a large number of brands on their network.These communications show that where you have lost on other PlayPearls brands you have then demanded refunds for the losses from the operator as the operator does not hold a UKGC license. You have received these refunds. You have specifically and repeatedly referenced the PlayPearls brand during these communications. As such, when you signed up at BetRealm you were fully aware that you, as a UK player, were not allowed to play with this operator.

While the operator should be preventing UK registrations, that's not excuse for knowingly exploiting the system. As losses have previously been refunded (i.e. the losing transactions you've previously engaged in have been voided), winnings cannot be paid.

Alongside the above we've looked into your history with this complaint service and have established that you have previously submitted a complaint under another username - http://thepogg.com/complaint/video-slots-responsible-gambling-complaint-and-failure-to-provide-data/ - that details repeated attempts to manipulate the UKGC self-exclusion policies to create no-lose situations for yourself. This issue continues the patterns referenced in the conclusion of that complaint and strengthens our view that you are repeatedly and systematically attempting to abuse self-exclusion protocols both with licensed and unlicensed operators.

No further discussion will be permitted of this issue.

ThePOGG

User icon
ThePOGG
April 18, 2016

Hi leethompson,

Feel free to contact the UKGC, however this won't be a productive use of time. I'm absolutely secure that the right decision was made with respect to this complaint and this complaint was not managed under our remit as an ADR. Regardless, feel free to take the issue to the regulator and we'll discuss the details of your behaviour to date with them.

Regarding your account at Norsebet, we will be contacting the operator now as this is obviously an unacceptable situation.

ThePOGG

User icon
ThePOGG
April 18, 2016

leethompson,

I've heard back from the operator. All your accounts across the PlayPearls network should be closed. However they do acknowledge that you've opened multiple accounts with several of their brands (also a prohibited practice at ALL online operators) and as such one may have been missed. They are going to double check to ensure that any missed accounts are closed.

As to the UKGC and your comments that have been moderated here - as expressed above no further discussion on this issue will be permitted. The information you presented does not change the fundamental facts that a) you KNEW you were not allowed to play with this operator and b) you've used this information to previously force return of losses from this group. As such this group cannot pay winnings after these events as any loss of a significant nature is likely to result in further demands from you.

All moderated comments are still held within our system and we will be more than happy to show these to the UKGC on request.

Due to the offensive language and tone of your continued communications I'm going to have to ask you not to contact this service again, via this form, email, phone or any other medium. This extends to opening new accounts under other details.

Our staff have the right to work without fear of violence or abuse.

Aggressive behaviour is considered to be any personal, abusive and/or aggressive comments, swearing, physical contact and/or aggressive gestures.

Any threats, violence or abuse directed at staff by members of the public is unacceptable and further instance will result in us passing your details on to the UK police.

ThePOGG

User icon
ThePOGG
April 18, 2016

leethompson - this is your final warning. To be clear, threat of violence is not a concern, but you have no right to subject this service to the abusive language and offensive comments that you are now systematically forwarding. Any further infraction will be reported to the UK police. Your behaviour now constitutes verbal assault and harassment.

You will not receive any further response or warnings.

ThePOGG

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Agreement

leethompson consented for ThePOGG to act on their behalf and share the personal information that they provide to ThePOGG with the following agencies for the purposes of resolving their complaint:

April 9, 2016

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