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Hi VladPlaskovg - welcome to ThePOGG.com!

Before going further, if you've already been through both Gambling Grumbles and Curacao eGaming and the operator's not paid, it's very unlikely that we will be any more successful at this stage.

As it stands, assuming that your account is accurate and there is no missing information, you are entirely in the right. From what you've posted above it appears that BetSonic have identified you as an Advantage Player and don't want to pay you. However without breach of a specific and clear term they are in the wrong.

We'll contact the operator and see what we can find out for you, but given the lack of action by their regulator you need to understand that BetSonic have little incentive to listen to us.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Thank you ThePOGG, appreciate it very much.
Wait till you see their responses in my correspondence with them with the (very little) help of Curacao regulator, they are simply hilarious. But please don't publish it yet, since it will do them a terrible PR and hurt their business and I still want to keep this dirt confined as much as possible, for various reasons, they've made enough sins even without that.
If it wasn't so sad, their smug and ridiculous answers would be very funny. I guess that's what being "licensed" in Curacao/other banana republics (although they also mention Malta in their website for "solidity", but it seems just 
like a holding company, at least that's what MGA told me when I complained to them) does to casinos - they think they are invincible and untouchable and can do whatever they want... 
A very good lesson for me and perhaps other players, though I presume not all casinos "regulated" in Curacao behave that way.

Hi VladPlaskovg,

Unfortunately the only response to our attempts to discuss your issue with BetSonic that we received was a general template instruction to have you contact their support or their regulator. Given that they've taken no action when you've complained to them and the Curacao regulator's response was at best unprofessional and more accurately described as disinterested, the course of action that BetSonic have recommended is clearly a waste of time.

At this stage I have no realistic expectation of BetSonic opening up, so I'm afraid we've reached the limit of what we can do to help. BetSonic and their associated properties will be added to our review list and marked as 'Not Recommended' in the near future.

Sorry we couldn't be of more help,

ThePOGG

BetSonic have reduced this player's max bet to an unreasonable level to complete their bonus. Regulator were of no help.

Hi,
 
 The complaint is re. BetSonic.com. Username [EDIT], email [EDIT]. "If you need to upload files, please state so in your complaint and we will contact you to arrange for this." I have a few relevant emails and screen shots to send also, should I send it to webmaster@thepogg.com ?
 
 The start of the incident is described here: http://www.gamblinggrumbles.com/Reports/Bet-Sonic_Demanding-900-bets
 I've followed BetSonic's own "advice" and tried to talk some sense to them via Curacao regulator, although I knew ahead it was a very long shot and that's why they initially registered there (to be able to conduct their monkey business and do whatever they want) and Curacao regulator is doing next to nothing to protect the players or demand from casinos to behave well – as it's described in every gambling forum / portal like ThePogg, Casinomeister, etc. The regulators only forwarded to BetSonic (also called ITainment) my emails with payment demands and forwarded back to me BetSonic's answers, which was totally useless since anyway we both were on the same email list and received each other's answers, and even this completely useless "effort" by the Curacao regulator was achieved after numerous reminders by me – they are a COMPLETE waste of time for players seeking protection against casinos' "misbehaviors", which is not surprising since they get paid by these same casinos and have a direct interest to protect them rather than the players – and that's the reason why BetSonic initially pointed me to them, knowing they would do NOTHING.
 
 I can send you all this correspondence of course, but to save time and effort for you, I'll only attach below some excerpts from the two last emails I've sent to both BetSonic and Curacao regulator.
 
 BetSonic continued behaving in the same smug way, laughing at me and teasing me – the screwed player, conveniently ignoring 90% of what I wrote and not answering me at all until being asked by the regulator and then writing 90% BS to justify their confiscation "trick" (thinking that being based in Curacao they are untouchable and can get away with EVERYTHING), so they continued behaving in the same way that they had behaved with me during Gambling Grumbles' mediation attempt and as they had behaved here (I can send you all our correspondence so you can judge it yourself):
 
 https://www.sportsbookreview.com/forum/sportsbooks-industry/3261856-betsonic-scam.html http://www.bookmakersforum.com/bookmakers/problem-betsonic/16510 , etc.
 
 But in this incident they had at least paid 50% of his winnings, whereas in my case they haven't even returned my deposit (!!!) - too bad for them, only gave me MUCH more ammunition to fire.
 
 Obviously, 95% of what they wrote in Gambling Grumbles is complete BS, which I can EASILY prove with emails, screenshots, etc:
 
 1. I haven't broken none of their terms - except for having (temporarily) some luck, which irritated them. And they decided to screw me, bad losers seeking various excuses to avoid paying EUR 2534. And they've continued that line with Curacao regulator's correspondence, jumping from one lame excuse to another (with me constantly proving them wrong) until they thought they've found the ideal excuse of "overbetting" – more on that later. Jumping from one lame excuse to another, obviously simply striving to confiscate substantial winnings - is not how a decent casino should behave, IMHO.
 
 2. They were much happier though, when I played beforehand absolutely the same way, with a couple of similar bonuses, which they themselves have offered me. As long as I lost everything, they said NOTHING WRONG and even offered me THEMSELVES the last bonus, where I finally had luck. But they are in the "free roll on the players" game, tolerate only losing players. That's an outright "very problematic behaviour" by any standard.
 
 3. Their suggestion to turn to Curacao gambling authority was just another joke/spit in my face, since everybody (and especially BetSonic) knows they'd do nothing. 
 
 4. They've blatantly lied to me, in writing, a couple of times, about their "inability" to raise the ridiculous EUR 1 stakes ("only the traders can decide about it" - complete BS), only to admit later they did it on purpose to screw me (no kidding?), and when I turned for help to Gambling Grumbles, they've closed my account completely, ceasing any communication with me - that's simply a VERY bad behaviour, to say it mildly.
 
 And so on, I can EASILY refute every lame excuse/accusation of theirs, but these already mentioned + their unwillingness to cooperate with me or the mediator should be enough to get the picture.
 
 Excerpts from correspondence with Curacao regulator and BetSonic – final unanswered emails I've sent them a few months ago:
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 
 ---------- Forwarded message ----------
 From: [EDIT]
 Date: Sun, May 21, 2017 at 5:04 PM
 Subject: Re: Help with Bookie
 To: Support i-Tainment support@itains.com
 Cc: Complaints - CEG complaints@curacao-egaming.com
 Dear iTains:
 Thank you for your answer, in which you've completely ignored all my points, that refuted (again) your "defense". I must, however, insist and ask you AGAIN to send us the detailed bet slips of my bets of 600 and 500, which you've claimed "have violated our T&amp;C and repeatedly abused the bonus". Failure to do so is an obvious attempt to hide a vital evidence, solely based on which you've decided to confiscate my substantial balance of a few thousands, after demanding the ridiculous 900 bets, DESPITE ME ALREADY COMPLETING THE ROLLOVER DE-FACTO. If you REALLY think you are right and I severely broke your "max 100 per bet" rule - you have a great chance now to immediately win this conflict, as I will happily admit my mistake, apologize to you, write to all the mediators I've involved (including Gambling Grumbles, where there currently is a consensus against you), will not publish this "incident" at major forums and will drop my steadily building legal charges.
 
 Dear regulator:
 Unfortunately, iTains have been very uncooperative so far, even with your help and involvement, confiscating/stealing my money with various false and constantly changing allegations, all of which I've refuted time after time for the last year(!!!). I and my people have had enough of this non-amusing and time-consuming "let's make up another excuse to confiscate [EDIT]'s money, since he's won way too much for us to pay him" game that iTains have been playing. Unless they finally show us a 100% REAL AND SATISFACTORY proof that I've severely broken their T&amp;Cs, unfortunately we're left with no choice and will be forced to take the necessary and detrimental PR and legal actions I've previously written about. Could you please give us an advice on what options may be available and the best way for a civil/legal action?
 Thank you for your help.
 
 Regards
 
 On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 5:11 PM, Support i-Tainment support@itains.com wrote:
 Dear Complaints,
 
 we have been repeatedly asked for replies of Mr. [EDIT] case and we have replied and explained everything more than once. We don't have any further comments.
 
 Best Regards,
 
 iTains NV
 
 -----Original message-----
 From: complaints@curacao-egaming.com
 Sent: 04/19/2017 13:56:18
 
 Dear iTains,
 Please update us on the matter.
 
 Best Regards,
 CEG
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 Explanation: after jumping from one lame confiscation excuse to another for a year (!!!), finally BetSonic thought they caught me on something and decided to present my bets of 500 and 600 as breaking their T&amp;C and abusing the bonus  What they very conveniently forgot/overlooked is that these bets were a merely time-saving aggregation of 5-6 SEPARATED AND NON-RELATED bets of 100, which was the maximum allowed by their bonus T&amp;C, which I've carefully read a few times and obviously abided, especially after having some luck and reaching a balance of a few thousands and obviously I didn't want to risk it by breaking stupidly their T&amp;C, it's also quite a stupid gambling move to bet so highly and risk a lot of the already achieved nice lucky winnings. But I'm a busy man (run my own time-consuming business), so to save some time, I've simply aggregated these 5-6 disconnected bets of 100 into one betting slip – a standard option in most casinos. Moreover, if you count these bets as 500+600 for the rollover (as they should count), I've already completed the rollover (before BetSonic demanding the ridiculous 900 bets of 1), but since I am usually a peaceful guy reluctant to go into avoidable conflicts, when they said "these bets of 500-600 only count as 100 for the rollover" I didn't want to argue with them (although I was right) and just decided to bet another 900 – but then they came up with their nasty trick of 900 bets of 1 (!!!). And then, when they closed my account after Gambling Grumbles' mediation attempt and I wrote them via Curacao regulator, they even had the audacity to claim that I've run out of time (3 months) for playing the bonus and that's why it was voided!!!  This was their style throughout the correspondence, can send you all of it, they are smug and use their "regulation" in Curacao to abuse and laugh at the victimized player. Obviously, they've very conveniently ignored my demands to send the detailed bet slips of my bets of 600 and 500, which they've claimed broke their T&amp;C – but would in fact prove my points, that I broke NONE of their T&amp;C and even completed the entire rollover and requested withdrawal before they counted these bets of 500-600 as only 100 and demanded another 900 bets of 1.
 
 
 
 After both regulator's and BetSonic's silence I was forced to send this strongly worded email to the regulator, which was still unanswered (they are obviously used to this):
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 ---------- Forwarded message ----------
 From: [EDIT]
 Date: Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 11:48 PM
 Subject: Re: Help with Bookie
 To: Complaints - CEG complaints@curacao-egaming.com
 We've received no answers from you - the regulator, who is supposed to DO ITS JOB AND PROTECT THE PLAYERS FROM CASINOS' MISBEHAVIOR - since then, absolutely proving your total worthlessness, showing again a well-known fact:
 hxxps://www.casinomeister.com/gambling-news/allegations-of-curacao-corruption-linger-on
 hxxps://www.casinomeister.com/curacao-egaming/
 
 Too bad, since even knowing that ahead, we gave you a chance to show that you can do better than that...
 
 Just for you to know, my lawyer says that your complete mis-cooperation with me (and my consultants: legal and from major gambling mediation services) and collusion with ITains (who are obviously paying you for your "licenses") in this matter, when after committing a fraud and a robbery, they are smearing me with various changing bullshit for over a year and are concealing vital evidence (which would instantly show their bluff re. "exceeding max bet allowed" - their latest BS robbery excuse), is making you - the regulators and "law and order keepers" - aiding and abetting crooks/criminals, and is therefore making you directly liable for our upcoming lawsuit and/or bad PR publications throughout major gambling sites and forums.
 
 We know that you have a direct interest to be biased towards the casinos and help them rather than the players, even in such cases of a clear fraud and evidence concealing by ITains, and still we ask and strongly demand that you DO YOUR JOB RIGHT!!! Instead of helping the criminals to get away with their crime, thereby becoming a crime associates yourself.
 
 We could see that from the beginning till now - you did the absolute minimum of copy-pasting ITains' BS answers or forwarding them our messages with a sentence: "ITains, please answer [EDIT]" - you couldn't care less, doing your "job". Since ITains obviously knew this ahead, they deliberately wanted me to turn to this ridiculous "regulator": http://www.gamblinggrumbles.com/Reports/Bet-Sonic_Demanding-900-bets "Especially now that he is spreading bad reputation for our company we will froze his account and we encourage him to complain to our regulator and we will follow our regulator advise."
 That's criminal collusion and is prosecutable, not speaking about the "great" PR it will give you...
 
 Please PRESSURE ITAINS TO SEND US THE DETAILED BETS SLIPS - or pay us immediately and with compensation for time and hassle spent. Concealing vital evidence (solely based on which they try to steal EUR 2534) will not look good in court and major gambling sites for both you and ITains.
 
 Please answer us from here on in a SERIOUS WAY, and not by stupidly copy-pasting ITains' answers that we've already seen, which basically say: "We've screwed you and won't pay you a penny. Since we can't accuse you in anything serious, we've just smeared you with various changing BS, and we won't send you the 500+600 bets details, since it will uncover our bluff - these are actually simply 5-6 disconnected bets of 100 (max allowed) aggregated in one bet slip, so basically you did nothing wrong, completed the rollover and we should've paid you - but we won't, because we simply don't want to, and we think we can do whatever we want being licensed in this monkey-business Curacao, including lying all over and stealing clients' money at will. Now fuck off [EDIT], we won't even bother answering you, thank you for your money and so long, sucker!"
 
 If even this letter won't make you take us seriously - we'll have to default to publishing bad PR about both your (very) corrupt organizations and/or suing them (and perhaps you also) - which I wanted to avoid and only keep as a last resort options.
 
 There will be no further warnings.
 
 
 On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 3:24 PM, [EDIT] wrote:
 Dear regulator? Haven't received an answer from you yet...
 
 "Could you please give us an advice on what options may be available and the best way for a civil/legal action?"
 And also, do you believe there are any good chances of success doing that?
 
 Thank you for your help.
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 
 
 
 
 I've checked the issue thoroughly with various lawyers and received some offers (quite expensive) for writing/editing my ultimatum/warning letter to BetSonic and later suing them (which seems almost unavoidable now). However, before starting a large and expensive war, that will perhaps include a lawsuit and large publications of this "conflict", I've decided to try again a peaceful resolution with another mediator. Maybe you'll have more skills/luck or they will get the message I'm dead serious and they'd better pay (with a reasonable compensation for my HUGE hassle so far) before it gets much worse.
 
 Will you please take the complaint and try to make things right? Or should I simply publish the entire ugly incident in all gambling portals and forums and/or sue them and screw them as hard as I can – just like they did to me (and with a laughter) ? I'll fight this till the end whatever it takes, since I will NOT be robbed in daylight by these clowns for EUR 2534 and for no wrongdoing other than their whims and reluctance to pay – if the world worked that way nobody would pay nothing to nobody.
 
 Regards and thank you very much,
 [EDIT]
 

BetSonic - made it impossible for me to complete WR

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