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Hi pelle4444 - welcome back!

Before we go any further can you forward the communications you've had with the operator about this issue to <a href="mailto:complaints@thepogg.com" rel="nofollow">complaints@thepogg.com</a>?

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Communication regarding this issue is sent now..

Hi pelle4444,

We have not received any emails from the address you have registered your account under.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Ok. Tried again now. Emails from the same adress that i log in with.

So i had a email conversation with casino management at Betsson.

Now they are saying that the transactions in oct 2015 of about 20 000 euro was withdrawls that were canceled by me. Havent Looked more in to it but it wouldent surprise me if they have transaction-id and other stuff that a normal withdrawls has. I asked many times about the withdrawls, always, ”nothing is wrong”, then when i asked about What account they paid out to they didnt give me this but when talking GDPR says the withdrawls was canceled. Very interesting.

They are also saying my account was closed 2013 at Nordicbet and 2016 Betsafe. Correct. They mean that i should get money back from what i put in at Nordicbet after 2013 and Betsafe after 2016 and that the self exclusion is not going over the licens. Or really they are saying they Gave me refund as a good guesture. Just a way to make everything look good and say, ”we didnt do anything wrong”, but everybody can see this is not handled correct.

I dont have the exact numbers but i a lot after my first exclusion at Nordicbet. 50 000 euro maybe and after the exclusion 2016 i put in alot at for example Betsson.

Even when they knew about my problems when self exluding they let me play. Never any questions from Betsafe and Betsson when playing.

Now they are trying to say that they made everything by the book, but its obvious they Havent.

Never thought a big company like Betsson would act like this.

I will not give up on this. Hopefully a lot of people read this complaint and get the view of how they act on players having a hard time with gambling problems.

Additional info is that i self excluded from casinoeuro before Nordicbet, 2010 maybe. They say that the info about this account can not be found...Havent digged anything about this issue since the later problem is strange enough

Hi pelle4444,

I've now had time to go through the emails you forwarded. I've also made some basic enquiries with the MGA. Unfortunately, it would appear that the operator may be right.

Under the MGA license, for an account closure to be considered to be under Responsible Gambling policies, the request has to be explicit in stating that you have a gambling problem. Simply asking to 'permanently close' your account would not qualify in this respect. I've spoken to the MGA and stating that you're 'playing to much' would not meet their standard by itself as it could simply be an indication that you want to play less rather than that this is a financial issue.

So the bottom line here is that unless you have explicitly informed the operator that you have a gambling problem, you likely would not be entitled to a refund in this instance.

ThePOGG

Hi, 

Thanks for reply. This feels so wired regarding the talk about responsible gambling and sad that MGA seems to defend the licens holder.

2013 in july i tell Nordicbet that im gambling to much and want them to close the account permanent. Thats a very clear sign of not having control of gambling in my opinion. Probably for 99,9 % of someone reading that.

Since then i also self excluded from Betsafe in 2016. This is also confirmed by BLM. Self exclusion for me is when you say you have gambling problem.

Looked at my other closures and openings. Could open my account after closure 5-6 times at Betsafe. And look at the other casinos!? So sad they could act like this. Everybody can see thats not ok. This is beside that i said that i gamble to much and want closure.

Openings after closure by looking at emails

Nordicbet - 3 or 4 times
Betsafe - 5 or 6 times
Betsson - 3 or 4 times
Casinoeuro - 1 or 2 times

The process been: i Deposited a lot and after a couple of days i closed the account. Big and many deposits. Could be up to 5000 euro for one day. Sometimes less sometimes more. More then 10-15 closures and openings. Havent the exact Numbers.

The thing is. Betsson group saw the money and never cared about the gambler. Never a question. Even though i pointed out that i gambled to much.

Sad that the industry works like this and scary if they get away with this behavior.

Forgot one thing above. The issue from Betsson has been that the self exclusion is not going over the licens. Thats not true. The fact that i Havent point out gambling problem (which i have) has not been an issue. They are trying everything now.

Hi pelle444,

For the regulator to be "defend[ing]" the operator their position would have to have come AFTER your complaint. Unfortunately this has been the position of MGA for years. 

I personally would prefer the MGA to take a stronger stance on problem gambling related issues, but we can only hold operators to the rules that have been defined for them. Otherwise no operator would know what standards they had to meet.

If you have clearly informed any of the involved operators that you have a gambling problem, please locate this communication and forward it to us.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Thanks for reply and explanation.

Sended mailcommunication with nordicbet. At betsafe the exclusion was made within their system at the website as i rembered it. But, as i wrote Before BLM confirms that self exclusion is made 2013 and 2016, but claims that the exclusion only is valid within the casino not in the licens and that a self exclusion has to be made at each of the casions separatly. Closed account at other sites within the Groups to, but not self exclusions. Self exclusions at nordicbet 2013 and betsafe 2016.

Hi pelle4444,

While I appreciate the email you've sent through, as detailed above saying 'I'm playing too much' is not considered a strong enough indicator of a gambling problem by the MGA to result in a responsible gambling account closure. You have to explicitly told the operator you have a gambling problem.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Thanks for update! What about the fact that i made exclusion at betsafe through website and the fact that BLM confirms my self exclusion? Dont really know What i have to prove when they Already say that i excluded bit its not valid through licens?

Hi pelle4444,

As stated above, you need to be explicit when informing the operator that you have a gambling problem. The MGA do not currently consider asking for a 'self-exclusion' to be a statement of a gambling problem.

We have raised concerns with these policies with the regulator, but until such time as the regulator's position changes operator's cannot be held to standards beyond those the regulator sets.

ThePOGG

Hi again,

As i remember i self excluded at betsafe with the reason gambling problem in 2016. On the other hand, if the casino confirms i self excluded in 2013 and 2016 with gambling problem. 

As i wrote Before i closed many accounts permanent. When i write self exclusion i mean that i informed the casino i have a gambling problem. I understand that MGA look at "i gambled to much" as that the player not informed about gamgling problem, but as i write above the confirms that i self excluded with gambling problems 2016.

On the other hand, why is MGA and how they regulate it important in this case, its very clear that the casino understood there was a gambling problem (when they confirms self exclusion) and then they should never letting me play again.

Just some communication below regarding when opening Nordicbet-account in october 2013 after closing with info that i gambled to much in april 2013. 

Very clear sign that they knew about the problem. For a gambling addict its impossible to say..."no i dont have Control". A gambling addict hardly never say they have a problem. This was my 2nd opening  after closing it in april 2013. Closed it may 2013 and the communication below is the answer when opening it in oct 2013 at Nordicbet. 

[EDIT]

Hi pelle4444,

As explained previously, the MGA license requires that you have to be explicit in informing the operator of a gambling problem. Asking for a 'self-exclusion' is not sufficient and is considered equivalent to asking for an account closure.

While I appreciate that NordicBet do ask in their communication whether you are experiencing gambling issue if you have not then responded telling them confirming this, again this would not fall under the category of informing the operator of your problem.

As also stated previously, I have concerns about the standards that the regulator are putting in place in this regard and have conveyed them to the regulator due to this case, but until such time as there is a change in policies operators can only be expected to meet the standards that the regulator sets.

ThePOGG

Ok. Oh my...

Lots of comments here but i feel there are so strange that the casino can stand straight and say the take action and take responsility for gamgling awareness. Guess the really cant...

Another question..when casino open a permanent closed account without giving the player 7 day period of "thinking" - what happens when the casino dosent use the 7-day period...? This is Another thing they havent done at times..

Hi pelle4444,

As discussed, the MGA does not view asking for a "permanent" closure to be a Responsible Gambling issue. It is permanent in so far as the operator will no re-open your account without explicit instruction from you. Cooling-off periods do not apply unless the closure was a Responsible Gambling closure.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Ok, Dont know how process is but do you have dialouge with betsson and they are saying that i Havent had a closure regarding gambling problem? Is the case ”not revolved” now? I have given you all i can to show How i been treated. Had another issue at MGA (another casino) and they are telling me to contact spelinpektionen that gives licens in sweden. Even when the issue occured long time Before 1 january 2019. Spelinspektionen is not handling compalnits and you have to go to ”allmänna reklamationsnämnden”. Guess thats Were i have to go if this case is ”not resolverad”..

Hi pella4444,

I'm afraid unless you can demonstrate that you explicitly told the operator that you had a gambling problem (i.e. not simply asking for a "permanent" closure or a "self-exclusion") then you would be free to re-open your account at any time without a cooling-off period. 

Without something specific that shows you informing the operator that you have a gambling problem there's nothing we can do to help you here.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Ok. Think its very clear that i Said this im many ways. Both by saying i am gambling to much and like to close my account and i many other ways. There is also no doubt that they understood this. How ever, Thanks for taking your time.

Hopefully my story make other players aware of how this casino act in questions like this. Not what i Thought about this company. They had a good reputation.

Hi pelle4444,

As I've explained repeatedly, the regulator set the standards that the operator has to meet and while you may feel that saying "I'm gambling too much" is a statement of addiction problems, it can be interpreted in other ways. It could simply mean that you don't want to spend the time gambling any more rather than that you are losing more than you can afford. The regulator requires that it be totally clear that the closure is due to problem gambling issues rather before the operator has to manage the complaint under responsible gambling policies. If you have not stated in exact terms that your closure request is due to gambling addiction it does not meet this requirement.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

While we understand the player's frustration, at the time of their play a 'self-exclusion' was considered a standard account closure under the MGA license.

I make this dispute on betsson because the dialouge regarding this issue been held with them. The problem is connected to 3 casinos at BML Group.
 
 2013 april 10 i closed my account at Nordicbet and informed that i played to much and liked to Close my account permanent.
 
 2013, 22 april i could open the account without no question and start playing again. Since that Betsson allowed me to open and play at betsson, betsafe and Nordicbet. 2016 i had the same proceducre at betsafe were i closed the account permanent. I have had i dialouge with betsson and accepted a refund on around 2000 euro. Start to realize that this is very far from what i should get in refund. They insist that this is my losses since 2013 but its probably around 10-15 times this amount. Feels mislead and hope you can help me sort this out.
 

Betsson - Self exclusion could open accounts again

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