Casino Luck - Self exclusion issue

Hi joanneyf - welcome to ThePOGG.com!

Sorry for the delay getting your complaint published. We launched the second site in our network yesterday so were rather busy.

I'll contact CasinoLuck and see what I can find out for you.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi there I have tried contacting Everymatrix on a number of occasions. They have not emailed back.

Thanks for all your help.

Hi there, Was just wondering if Casino luck/Every Matrix had been back in touch? Many thanks, [EDIT]

Hi joanneyf,

I have spoken with Casino Luck. Due to the nature of this issue they're not allowed to discuss it as gambling protection issues HAVE to be managed by the license holder. The license holder in this instance would be Everymatrix.

I have emailed Everymatrix a couple of times regarding this issue and informally from other sources have been told that with this type of issue the best approach you can take is to regularly contact them and continue pushing, but expect them to be slow to respond.

I would advise you continue to email Everymatrix directly as will I.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi there, Thanks so much for your reply and trying to help me. I will continue emailing them. It's such a shame they can't reply and quite unprofessional. It seems they are reluctant to email back when they know they are in the wrong. I would be happy with just a general email and refund of my 200 pounds deposits. They are not acting or following through Responsible Gambling Laws. Many thanks, [EDIT]

Hi there, just thought I'd mention that I have checked my ticket number in relation to my complaint and apparently they are regarding this issue CLOSED despite being in breach of their license!! Thanks, [EDIT]

Hi joanneyf,

I've received a response regarding this issue from Everymatrix and the information provided raise significant concerns for me regarding your complaint.

The timeline of events that Everymatrix provided is as follows:

On the 13/12/2014 you self-excluded for the maximum period of time at Next Casino.

You then went on and managed to sign-up at Casino Cruise, where on the 27/04/2015 Everymatrix refunded £500 to you. The fact that you understood enough at this point to request that your deposits be returned under the Everymatrix UKGC license tells me that you were aware of where your self-exclusion extended to.

Shortly after having your deposits returned by Casino Cruise you went on to open an account a Thrills casino, who are not part of the Everymatrix license, and then contacted Everymatrix to refund your deposits there. At this juncture Everymatrix sent you multiple communications explaining that Thrills were part of the BetIt Group that operated under their own license and provided you a link to their UKGC license page showing which properties a self-exclusion with them extended to. I have been informed that Thrills casino also communicated with you to confirm this information.

At this stage there's been several interactions where the properties that your self-exclusion at Next casino extended to were made readily available to you.

You then went on to sign-up at Casino Luck which resulted in a loss of £205 and this claim.

And this is where the problem arises. Given that you've been provided on several occasions information regarding which operators where covered by the Everymatrix license, it seems fair to assume that you knew you were self-excluded at Casino Luck prior to signing up. Out of the thousands of online casinos in operation today you selected one of the dozen operators that fell under the self-exclusion you'd already had repeated and significant conversation with the license holder about.

This creates a situation where the operator can only lose. By targeting a group you knew you were self-excluded at you can claim your money back if you lose and demand to be paid if you win.

While I appreciate that ideally you should have been prevented from opening an account in the first place (your account was detected and closed within 3 hours and there is currently work going on to improve the automated system) some responsibility also has to lie with you. Your selection of Casino Luck doesn't appear to have been random and you were provided enough information that you should have been aware that you were self-excluded at this property. Alongside this the repeated claims for refunds of deposits tell me that you know exactly how the gambling protection policies are enforced. The strong indication that you were aware that you could claim losses back from Casino Luck crosses the line of your own responsibility. Had you chosen a random operator and found out afterwards that you shouldn't have been allowed to play due to a previous self-exclusion on the same license that would be a different matter, but specifically choosing an operator that you knew yourself to be self-excluded with to see if you could get through their detection system changes the case entirely.

Gambling protection policies are there to protect problem gamblers, not to provide problem gamblers an opportunity to play without risk.

I sympathize with your struggle and would strongly encourage you to seek further help with your gambling issues, but if the above timeline is an accurate reflection of events there's nothing further we can do to help you. Feel free to let us know if it's not and we'll pursue Everymatrix to provide the communications from the relevant time periods.

Everymatrix have informed us that their designated Alternative Dispute Resolution service is eCOGRA if you wish to take this issue further. I can provide you with contact details for this group, though in my opinion they are likely to reach the same conclusion as we have here if the stated timeline is accurate.

Sorry we can't be of further help,

ThePOGG

Hi there, Thankyou so much for all your help in this matter.You have been great!! Yes I did get a refund from Casino Cruise but only after months and months of mediating and thanks to eCogra.I had intially being told by Every Matrix that Casino Cruise had a different license number from Next Casino and they couldnt help! This was a blatant lie!! I am also disappointed to see that Every Matrix are lying to you further. 1. I self -excluded from Next Casino on 13.12.13 not 13.12.14 like Every Matrix say and I have the emails to prove this. 2.It was not until months later that Thrills sent me a promotional email which showed they were on the Every Matrix platform that I queried it. Fair enough I understand this decision. No refund should be made-nothing to do with Every Matrix and completely my fault. 3. Every Matrix initially lied to me and sent in an email that they could not refund deposits from Casino Cruise as they had a different license number. This was subsequently queried by Ecogra and on 27.04.15 I got a refund. 4.I opened the Casino Luck account with EXACTLY the same email address, phone number, address, username and password as the others. Why was it not picked up. 5. There are quite clearly no responsible gaming rules at Every Matrix. They are happy to let known problem gamblers gamble. 6. In September 2015 (after the Thrills query) I emailed Every Matrix requesting to be self-excluded across the platform. 7. Never have I requested to be paid by Every Matrix nor should I as I am self-excluded in my best attempt to keep away from gambling which is slowly destroying my life. It is me who is in the lose lose situation-not the casino. 8. Not once have Every Matrix sent me an email showing casinos under their license. I challenge the timeline that Every Matrix has. It is not me being deceitful.I do accept some responsibility but not all. All I want is to be treated fairly. I would be willing to accept the equivalent amount in shopping vouchers to what I have lost as I dont believe that refunding problem gamblers like me is the answer either as it further tempts our habit. I would be more than happy with a grocery voucher to feed my family. It's about dual responsibility here and doing the right thing. Please believe me that I am not some opportunist. I am dismayed that Every Matrix are here being permitted to profit at the hands of the weak and vulnerable. Kindest regards and have a lovely Christmas, [EDIT] PS I can send further supporting documentation if required.

I've got to be honest joanneyf - I've just found this post after responding to your email and I'm really disappointed.

On the 22nd of December you emailed me the below directly stating that the time line I presented above was accurate:

Then on the 23rd you make a post on what will ultimately be the public complaint thread stating the EXACT OPPOSITE. I also continued this conversation with you over email today and not once did you mention any of the above.

With all the accusations made in the above post I was sorely tempted to simply delete it. We wouldn't usually allow this type of post but I feel it's important to demonstrate transparency on this issue. As such I'm leaving it in place and will simply include the last email I sent to you today:

Hi [joanneyf],

Apologies for the delayed response - I was away from the computer yesterday.

I'm afraid there's nothing I can do to help you. While I do agree that operators bear responsibility for ensuring that problem gamblers aren't accepted, that responsibility isn't to the exclusion of all other factors. In this instance they have repeatedly given you information regarding where you were restricted from playing. I'm confident you understood this information as you knew enough to know that Casino Cruise were covered by your self-exclusion at Next. They then caught and closed your account within 3 hours of you disregarding their previous communications directing you to the list of restricted properties.

I genuinely sympathise with your situation but I can't view it as fair to fault the operator for this situation when they've made clear to you on several occasions where your self-exclusion impacted, have refunded losses in the past and acted quickly to identify and close your account. As such there's nothing further we can do with relation to this specific issue.

I don't think you're being disingenuous at all, but that doesn't equate to the operator's behaviour being wrong.

I would suggest that you go to your bank and ask if there's anything they can do to stop you making payments to any gambling operator. I don't know whether this is a possibility but they may be able to help and this would be an effective self-exclusion everywhere short of opening a different account and would certainly be likely to prevent you engaging in short term destructive behaviour like this.

I'm sorry we can't be of further help and I hope you have a good holiday season."

At this juncture I would suggest that you do as you suggested over email and take this issue up with eCOGRA. I do have doubts that you'll have any more success with them but I'm drawing this issue to a close here.

ThePOGG

Hi ,

Hope you are well. Just wanted to let you know that casino luck refunded my money last week out of the blue!! I hadn't pursued it since our last correspondence.

Thanks and have a lovely Christmas x