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Hi dreaho - welcome to ThePOGG.com!

As we are the ADR for the White Hat Gaming license under the Malta Gaming Authority license there is certain information we have to provide you now.

You can find all the relevant information about this service here – http://thepogg.com/terms-of-use/ and the terms of use for our complaint service here - https://thepogg.com/terms-of-use-for-dispute-resolution-service/

To summarise.

– Use of this service does not preclude your seeking redress through court proceedings .

– This service is free to use for both the complainant and operator.

– At any point during the procedure the submitting party retains the right to withdraw their complaint. This does not preclude our right to continue the discussion with the involved operator of general issues related to the complaint (i.e. insufficiently clear terms and conditions).
https://thepogg.com/terms-of-use-for-dispute-resolution-service/

– You are not obliged to obtain independent or legal advice or representation, though you may choose to do so.

If you have any questions about the above, let me know.

Unfortunately there is nothing we can do in this situation. The amount you 'bet', is the amount that is removed from your account by a single click of the 'spin' button or similar. If while playing Legacy of Ra you have bought a bonus you have placed a very large bet to have an increased chance of winning. The price for buying the bonus feature is still 'the bet' and this does exceed the maximum allowed by bonus terms.

Sorry we cannot be of further help.

ThePOGG

Thank you for the quick and informative response.  Had I known that this were the case I would have never bet on a feature bet.  Is there anything stating that specifically?  Also, is there anything stating what you had stated "The amount you 'bet', is the amount that is removed from your account by a single click of the 'spin' button or similar."  This was an innocent misunderstanding and I would like to possibly consider court proceedings as I do not believe the terms are very clear.  When I look at my bet being $0.80 even when I go to the feature, I believe my bet is still less than $5.  I can spend $80 or more playing the game before I get the bonus normally so it seemedto balance out in my head.  Can you please give me some information onhow I would go about filing for court proceedings?  I am in Canada so Im not sure how this works.

Thank you,
Andrea Stever

Hi Dreaho,

While I understand you may be under an misconception here, I don't believe this is due to any inadequacy in the terms as written. The bet you place is the money that is removed from your account. This is no different to placing chips in multiple options on the roulette wheel. The bet on the spin of the wheel is the sum of the amount placed on the table (i.e. the amount removed from your account).

I'm sorry to say that we cannot provide you with any information on the court system in Canada having no experience with the Canadian legal institutions.

Sorry we cannot be of further help.

ThePOGG

Hi again. I am not sure I agree with the relation to a roulette wheel.  When you buy into a bonus feature you are basically paying to guarantee free spins.  I am taking the risk to spend the money when I could have had free spins well before I spent that money. For example, my bet was for $0.80 therefore the bonus feature would cost me $80. I buy the feature and each spin is for the $0.80 bet.  More often than not I would win less than the money I spent on the bonus feature.  It is actually better for my wagering requirements if I bet the $0.80 normally until I get the bonus round since, including any winnings, I would wager more to be down the $80 I would have spent to buy the feature.  This is a situation that needs to be clarified in its terms.

Hi Dreaho,

I'm sorry to hear that you disagree with the above comparison, but it does not change our position or opinion on this case. It is absolutely self-evident that you are betting $80 when 'buying the bonus'. It goes so far as to state 'Ra Bonus <strong>BET</strong>:

<img src="https://thepogg.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/legend-of-ra-bonus.jpg"></img>

As stated previously, this is simply a case of placing a bigger bet to have an improved chance of winning. If you have chosen to interpret this as something other than what it says that is your error rather than any lack of clarity on the operator's part.

As stated above, there is nothing further we can do to help you.

ThePOGG

And what about other games with the same feature such as Genie Megaways, also a blueprint game where the feature says "Genie Bonus Wish" "Press to Buy".  Is this then acceptable because it does not use the word "bet"?  

I was told in an email that for future reference to make sure that the bets per line and the number of lines for a certain stake do not exceed the limit.  This is EXACTLY what I did.  I bought the feature at an $0.80 bet.  Each round played had BET ($) 0.80 listed at the bottom.  At NO time did my bet EVER say BET ($) 80.00 at the bottom.  It would be very different had I bought the feature for $1000 and my bet for each round was listed as BET ($) 10.00.  That, to me, would be exceeding the limit.

I would also like to add a fewmore things.  After going through my history I realized that I did not even touch my bonus money.  By the time I played the Legacy of Ra game I had a cash balance of $2808.03.  At that point I bought the bonus feature 5 times and in total I lost $200.08.  

The terms for this bonus on Dream Vegas' site are written as this:
                                 The maximum bet allowed whilst the welcome bonus is in play is $5. Should you bet higher than this while the welcome bonus is in play, we reserve the right to confiscate all winnings.

This is very vague.  I 100% believed that if my bet at the bottom of the screen for each game round was less than $5 than I was well within my limits.

Another site (bitcasino.io) has their terms written like this:

With an active bonus, the maximum bet amount per wager/spin is mɃ 6 until the wager requirements have been completed. This includes double up wagers after a game round has been completed, for instance, wagering winnings from previous game round on red or black.

Any wagers made using the gamble feature on Slots or the double feature on Video/Power Poker will not count towards the wagering requirement. Free spins and bonus rounds do not count towards wagering requirements.

This is waaaaaaay more descriptive and does not leave the player to assume the rules.  Terms should be written clearly.  In my case I feel like they have not been...at all!!

Hi Dreaho,

Other games are not relevant to your case, though as explained initially I still would not agree with you.

When a single click removes an amount from your account, that is the amount you have bet. It is that simple. Legacy of Ra makes this even clearer in the manner in which their game is constructed, but even where it says they use the word 'buy' rather than 'bet', it is still self-evident that you are risking (i.e. 'betting') the buy amount on the bonus feature you receive.

Neither are the terms and conditions at other operators relevant to this issue.

I'm sorry you are unhappy with the outcome of this case but there is nothing further we can do to help you.

ThePOGG

Thankyou for your response.  I understand that it can be viewed as placing a bet but it also, obviously can be viewed as not placing a bet.  I'm sure Im not the only one who has dealt with this confusion.  I am assuming using the gamble feature or a respin feature of more than $5 is also not allowed.  Both also situations that a person could easily not consider a 'bet' since the original bet is always still in play.  I was of the latter belief therefore it was not clear to me from the terms.

Something else that I'm probably not clear on is some information I recieved while looking at other forums and complaints.  A similar situation occured with Dream Vegas and they sent an email to the complainant.  The complainant took a screen shot of the email and this is what caught my attention.

"Following a review of your account we note that you were found to be in breach of Clause 13 of the Significant Terms hxxps://www.dreamvegas.com/promotions?scrollto=welcome promoterms 
which states: 'The maximum bet allowed for any of your bonus funds is limited to £5.  Should you bet higher than this using your bonus funds, you revoke such bonus funds and they shall be removed from your account.'

I did not touch my bonus funds.  I deposited $150 and recieved a bonus of $60 which was the 2nd welcome bonus offer.  The lowest I went was to $138.  I won big on Primal Megaways and by the time I bought the bonus for Legacy of Ra I had almost $2800 in cash funds.  Am I reading something wrong here?

Hi Dreaho,

Yes double up features and re-spin features would be included. You are again choosing to risk funds that were not included in your original wagers. They are separate bets.

I'm sorry that you feel that this has not been clear enough for you to understand, but no, I do not agree that this is sufficiently unclear that the average player would be confused by it. 

As to the term quote you have provided - that's UK as evidenced by the GBP currency. The UKGC require different management of bonuses to all other regulators with bonus restrictions only applying to wagers placed with bonus funds. For the rest of the world the bonus contract, and restrictions, apply from the point where you receive the bonus until you have completed the wagering requirements. The upside to this is that wagers placed with deposited funds count towards wagering requirements, where they do not in the UK.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

I AM the average player and I WAS unclear.  YOU might as well just call me stupid.  

The UK has it right though.  Obviously their "average players" had alot of confusion as well.

[EDIT]

"-Betting firms must make clear any restrictions on game play and must avoid ambiguous terms."

Hi Dreaho,

I'm sorry you feel that my saying you have made a single mistake defines you as "stupid". That was not my intent. We all make mistakes at times and making a mistake is not a reflection on one's overall intellectual capacity. But that does not change anything. This has been a mistake on your part. The violating wager was very clearly a 'bet' and very clearly far exceeding the maximum allowed bet.

As stated previously there is nothing further we can do to help you in this instance.

ThePOGG

The player exceeded the maximum allowed bet for the bonus they claimed. As such there is nothing we can do to help them.

Hi there,
 
 I had $4800 confiscated from Dream Vegas Casino as I had apparently bet more than the $5 maximum amount. I looked around the time they stated I was in breach and around that time a debit of $80 was made for Legacy of Ra, a blueprint game. I did not bet a single bet of $80 however. The game offers a "Bonus Bet" which allows you to buy into the bonus feature. The bet in the bonus feature was still, however, only $0.80. I cannot see anywhere in their terms that this specifically is not allowed. Please help.
 
 Thank you,
 [EDIT]

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