Dream Vegas - Wrongly Confiscated Withdrawal
Found for the Casino - This player has exceeded the maximum allowed bet term while playing with a bonus. As such there is nothing we can do to help them.
Read our Dream Vegas Casino Review.
Just wanted to start off by saying you are doing God's work.
I've read a few of your previous cases regarding Clients of 'Dream Vegas,' hope you can help with my situation before (if needed) I contact my lawyer for help/recommendations.
My case, similar to the resounding majority revolves around the Welcome Bonus and the refusal to pay out upon requesting withdrawal. Please read in it’s entirety – I broke down some important math/snippets of chat logs and further proof/evidence showcasing my side.
I would like to be candid with you/transparent and honest throughout. I read over the TOC's and noticed players were not allowed to spin for over $5. Fair enough, I never did (went through every single log). I did however, make a few bonus buys throughout the course of my roughly 10,000 needed spins to fulfill the 35x requirement of the deposit and bonus ($200 dep, $400 bonus).
Few things here, I've tried a few online casinos over the years, when the bonus money is engaged and in use - OTHER CASINOS DO NOT LET YOU BUY BONUS BUYS IF IT IS AGAINST THEIR BONUS/WAGER REQUIREMENT CLAUSE. Sorry for the caps but this is always the case. Other casinos will literally give you an error message and reject the attempt. Why is Dream Vegas unclear about this in their terms and conditions - purposely misleading and allowing their customers to make this fatal error so they can swoop in and reject a future payout. It's barbaric, unethical, misleading, purposely ambiguous, disgusting and flat out wrong that a) they don't EXPLICITLY write no bonus buys allowed, that should be a condition point in itself or looped in with Section 8 - "The maximum bet allowed whilst the welcome bonus is in play is $5. Should you bet higher than this while the welcome bonus is in play, we reserve the right to confiscate all winnings.” Rules are meant to protect, not be ambiguous, misleading, confusing and outright wrong.
If Dream Vegas wants to make a judgement call when someone wins too much money and reject payment without sufficient cause - they need to add this currently imaginary rule to the TOCs or protect the player and block the attempt of a player purchasing a bonus buy. This rule is not being enforced by them and I have proof of this later.
Before moving to that, I said Dream Vegas above and not White Hat Gaming Limited. For example - playzee is a brand also managed by White Hat Gaming and they do not have this no bonus/no $5 above spin limit (nothing regarding this in their TOCs). <- do you see how these two things are very different. Essentially there are 2 rules Dream Vegas is asking clients of without clearly indicating both: no spin above $5 AND NO BONUS BUYS PERIOD. Min spin is usually 20 cents, some slots have 10 cent spins. A bonus buy on a 10 cent spin is... $10. These are two completely separate rules. It blows my mind and makes me sad in humanity that Dream Vegas tries to pull off this stunt when it's not clearly articulated in the slightest and they haven't provided justifiable/reasonable measures to ensure it doesn't happen.
I would like to mention another casino named Hello Casino - also managed by White Hat Gaming. Hello Casino has a MAX deposit limit of $300 and they have this vague rule about the $5 spin as well. Why is this relevant? Well Dream Vegas has a max deposit limit of $2500 where you can still receive the 200% bonus. This totals $7500!
I would like to break this down further.
$7500 x 35 = $262,000. Somebody would have to bet 1/4 million to be able to meet wager requirements. No problem though, 200% is generous. There is a problem though... if this hypothetical person did a bonus buy on 20 cents ($20) they would lose out on a potential withdrawal if they magically made it to the end of the wagering requirements... think about how ridiculous this is and how flawed and made up these rules are. Do you know what it would take for this person to meet wager requirements at $5 a spin without bonus buys?
$262,000 / $ 5 = 52,500 SPINS! That is a ridiculous mindblowing amount of spins. Here's the issue before I break down more of the math. Let's say this person was also confused about the vague/purposely incomplete rules and conditions and they did a 5k bonus buy right away. Lets say it flops and they do another 2.5k bonus buy right away... there is nothing preventing the player from doing this as Dream Vegas is purposely not preventing this so they can either collect the lost money from the flops or refuse payout if it his (win win for them and wrong wrong in reality). So if both the 5k and 2.5 flop the client lost their 2.5k as they were allowed to buy these (not using the word bet because it really isn't). Let's say it hits huge and they somehow gamble $262,000 without doing a spin over $5. Dream Vegas will refuse payout. One final thing before I revisit the math and it showcases how there are absolutely two rules here:
Rule 1- client never does a bonus buy but does a $6 or above spin(bet) - they are ineligible to receive a withdrawal (TOCs protect them here)
Rule 2- client never spins/bets more than $5 but purchases a bonus buy AT ANY AMOUNT - they are ALLEGEDLY AND WRONGLY REFUSED A WITHDRAWAL (This is simply not stated in the TOCs). I just proved these are 2 very different terms.
Back to the math and thank you for reading all of this.
So 52,500 spins is what it takes at the max spin amount of $5. Let's say im doing turbo spins on a drop
the casino review
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Hi cmanlaffz - welcome to ThePOGG.com.
Please ensure you have read our Complaint Guidance to ensure that fully understand how our complaint management process functions.
As we are the ADR for the White Hat Gaming license under the Malta Gaming Authority license there is certain information we have to provide you now.
– Use of this service does not preclude your seeking redress through court proceedings .
– This service is free to use for both the complainant and operator.
– At any point during the procedure the submitting party retains the right to withdraw their complaint. This does not preclude our right to continue the discussion with the involved operator of general issues related to the complaint (i.e. insufficiently clear terms and conditions).
– You are not obliged to obtain independent or legal advice or representation, though you may choose to do so.
If you have any questions about the above, let me know.
Sadly there is nothing we can do to assist you in this matter. Bonus Buy features are simply placing a single large bet on the outcome of the bonus feature. There is no ambiguety in this matter. The entire stake is risked on the outcome of the bonus feature.
The maximum bet term in this instance is not in any way vague, you simply have not adhered to it. The practices of other operators are non-relevant to your claim. The reality here is that no regulatory agency that we are aware of currently places the onus on the operator to prevent players from exceeding the maximum bet limit that they agreed to when accepting the bonus. The player is expected to abide by these restrictions.
Neither is whether you feel that the number of spins required to complete the wagering requirements for any given size of bonus relevant. Each player has make their own determination about whether they feel the terms associated with any given promotion make the promotion attractive. You are certainly within your rights to not engage with this type of promotion if you do not feel the terms give you fair chance of winning, but this hypothetical player has no bearing on your claim, which is simply a question of whether or not you adhered to the maximum allowed bet term for the bonus you accepted.
I'm sorry we could not be of more help.