Euromoon - complaint
Found for the Casino - The cashback received by this player was clearly described as a "bonus" and as such is subject to the bonus related terms and conditions, including max bet.
Read our EuroMoon Casino Review.
Hello ThePogg mediators!
How do you do?
My thePogg username: [EDIT]
Unfortunately, another outrageous case re. Euromoon casino (saw this too late, it seems http://thepogg.com/casino-review/osiris/ ), but hopefully, you will be able to help me to restore basic justice and make them pay my due winnings. Thanks ahead for your great and free work re. this complaint, I am regularly visiting your site for already a few years!
I was offered a 30% cash back by their rep [EUROMOON REP]. She called it a "non wagering bonus", a confusing name - if it is a cash back, obviously it should be 100% my free withdrawable money, with which I can do WHATEVER I want
(that is the industry standard, can bring you LOTS of examples), especially after mentioning "non wagering" which also means 100% my free withdrawable money, with which I can do WHATEVER I want, but the word "bonus" has alerted
me on potential danger (bonuses usually carry lots of restrictions), so I cleared out SPECIFICALLY that issue with ANOTHER email with the same rep:
[PLAYER]: "Cash back is a non wagering bonus." - meaning, if I get it, I can simply withdraw it?
[EUROMOON REP]: Yes you can. Best regards, [EUROMOON REP] Account Manager Euromoon Casino
All is unequivocally clear, right? Well, only until you have a large sum they want to avoid paying... I have deposited EUR 1500 and lost it all, then I have immediately deposited EUR 2K and lost it all as well, while knowingly not breaching their weird rule of not betting more than 30% of my DEPOSIT (not bonus, pay attention, merely my deposit, probably a nasty trap for confiscating money from suckers, which I knowingly avoided, see http://thepogg.com/casino-review/osiris/ ), then I have received the promised cash back of 1050 and continued playing with 350 per bet on roulette, until eventually hitting a large win ON MY FINAL THIRD BET (350 multiplied by 3 is 1050). So then I asked for a withdrawal of 6200, first they wanted to only confiscate the cash back of 1050, and amidst arguing over this amount (which is mine 100% as [EUROMOON REP] DOUBLE CONFIRMED, but perhaps due to my generally peaceful nature, I would agree to divide it or even forgo it altogether, since in their T&C it is written indeed that bonuses are non-withdrawable, despite what [EUROMOON REP] said about my CASH BACK, though obviously since I have double checked with her this issue, her double approval overrides their T&C, a standard case and standard overriding of T&C to IMPROVE the terms for the player to entice him to play), their appetites grew significantly and they started trying to confiscate my ENTIRE balance. First they tried this due to my allegedly "overbetting more than 30% playing with my deposits", but when I explained them the high math that 350/1500 is 23%, MUCH less than 30% (let alone my 2K deposit), they switched to trying to find a cause to confiscate the large amount in my playing 350 a bet with my cash back, they said 350/1050 is more than 30% (this time they got the high math right, it is 33.3% indeed, and only outrageously contradicted the TWICE WRITTEN CONFIRMATION OF THEIR OWN SUPPORT in their relentless attempt to avoid paying me the substantial due winnings) and are therefore confiscating my ENTIRE BALANCE. A few chats and MANY emails with my account manager [EDIT] (who has switched his mind a few times during our correspondence, another "reassuring" fact) did not help, they are too eager and stubborn to confiscate EUR 6200, which I can easily understand but not agree to. All these chats and emails can be given to you upon request, of course, since I immediately felt the looming danger and started saving them, when instead of discussing HOW to pay me (that is not a simple thing in this casino as well), they quickly shifted to discussing how they could confiscate my entire winnings.
I would very much appreciate your help to resolve this peacefully, while still possible, before escalating this conflict further - and I'll go to the very end with it, including publishing the ugly incident throughout the Web and thereby destroying their (and probably the entire group's) reputation, suing them for a larger sum that will include my substantial lost time+moral damage, etc.
Thanks a lot!
My details at Euromoon:
email: either this or [EDIT], does not matter.
Relevant chats: for now, this will suffice, I have more but of less relevance:
Euromoon Casino (www.euromooncasino.com) is owned and operated by Game Tech Group N.V., of Dr. M.J. Hugenholtzweg Z/N, UTS Gebouw, Curaçao © 2015
Euromoon Casino operates under Master License No. 1668/JAZ, granted by the Government of Curaçao.
Financial transactions are managed by Supaze Limited situated at Sotiri Tofiri 4, 2nd Floor, Agios Athanasios, 4102, Limassol, Cyprus.
Curacao eGaming Badge
You are now chatting with [EUROMOON REP 2]
Agent: Welcome to the Casino
Agent: How are you today?
[EUROMOON REP 2]: Just wanted to remind you that you have a 30% cashback on your deposit
Me: yes, tks
Relevant emails: there is plenty of correspondence with [EDIT], my account manager and some with their finance department. I have already described in brief what is happening in these emails, they have gradually shifted from their desire to confiscate the 1050 cashback to confiscating my entire balance due to my so called "breach of 30% of the bonus over betting", while VERY CONVENIENTLY COMPLETELY IGNORING MY ROCK-HARD ARGUMENTS that [EUROMOON REP], their own chat rep., had double confirmed this cashback is my free and withdrawable cash and therefore, obviously, I can do whatever I want with it, including playing 33% or even 100% per bet with it, or simply withdrawing it all. To impose any restrictions on double-confirmed free withdrawable cash is unheard of, but they sure are creative in their attempt to confiscate my substantial balance.
I am sending you only the IMPORTANT AND RELEVANT emails, but can send you more / all of them upon request, of course. I have NOTHING to hide, unlike the casino.
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Hi Zeslkj423 - welcome to ThePOGG.com!
I'm really sorry to say I think you're out of luck on this one. I've just looked at the emails you sent through and I want to highlight the important part:
The above is state from what I assume to be the first emails about this cash back. The long and short here is that while you're right you avoided a very nasty term regarding the 30% maximum bet on deposits for non-bonus play, this is consistently referred to as a "bonus". The operator confirms that you're free to withdraw the funds, but doesn't state that any other bonus terms are waived. In other words, the 30% max bet while playing with a bonus (30% of the bonus not the deposit) would be enforceable.
To be clear on this the 30% rule that applies to all play is taken from the General Terms and Conditions while the 30% rule that applies to bonuses is taken from the Bonus Terms and Conditions.
While I would agree that this has been set up in a confusing manner, the one thing they have been clear about is that this is a bonus and as such bonus t&cs would apply.
This does lead to an aspect of the conversation that the live chat rep did unquestionably get wrong - the cash back was never withdrawable. Had you played under the pre-text that it was then tried to withdraw it immediately then there would be a case to argue here, though I don't necessarily agree that live chat mistake automatically overrule terms and conditions - this is dependant on the situation. What hasn't been impacted by this mistake is the reference to the cash back as a "bonus" - it may not have had a wagering requirement associated with it, but it's still a bonus and subject to bonus terms.
As things stand, by bonus terms and conditions, the cash back itself would be non-withdrawable and you've breached the maximum bet with a bonus so the winnings would be void. In short you're completely out of luck here.
I do understand how you've found yourself in this position, between a live chat mistake and 2 different max bet terms for general and promotional play, both at 30%. That's a bit of a warren to navigate your way through. With a highly rated operator I would highlight the issues and look to see if it was possible to reach some middle ground, given that you were clearly trying to adhere to the general deposit max bet term, and only marginally over bet the bonus max bet term, but this is a group who've consistently enforced their terms and conditions in far more (in my opinion) questionable manners than this case. In short I'm of the mind that they have poorly constructed and defined terms and then apply the most aggressive interpretation possible. As such, given that they're technically justified by their terms and conditions in this instance, there's no real possibility that they're going to be interested in any form of compromise.
Sorry we can't be of more help,