Grand Reef – not paying for over 1 year

Hi ok57 - welcome to ThePOGG.

I'll get in contact with Grand Reef/African Palace and see what I can find out. Please bare in mind that this process is likely to take a while as it's very possible I'll have to contact their regulator.

Thanks

ThePOGG

Hi ok57,

To keep you up-to-date - I have contacted the African Palace/Grand Reef affiliate program and received a response. They are trying to look in to the issue for you now.

I would stress that this is the same pattern as with previous slow payment issues with this group that ultimately I had to refer to their regulator, but it is necessary to go through this process to demonstrate - if we have to go down that line - that all possible avenues were explored prior to the regulator being contacted.

Thanks

ThePOGG

Hi ok57,

To keep you informed - I am still chasing this and am experiencing the same behaviour where the casino rep continues to 'chase' the issue but never comes back with any actual information. To be fair, I don't think the casino rep is being given any information to give, so I don't feel it's their fault specifically.

I'm going to give this until the 16th of May - one month after submission of the complaint - before I pursue this with their regulator. That will give ample evidence that this issue is not being moved forward.

Thanks

ThePOGG

Hi ok57,

Don't want you thinking I'm not chasing this - the casino are currently talking to me about the situation and I should be able to update you shortly.

Thanks

ThePOGG

Hi ok57,

Grand Reef have got back to me. We've had an extended discussion about this and they've informed me that there has been a decision made. They have told me it's positive - i.e. good for you - but haven't given me the details. Can you confirm what you've heard from them?

Thanks

ThePOGG

Hi ok57,

Can you confirm that you've received your funds?

Thanks

ThePOGG

Hi ok57,

Grand Reef have got in contact with me say that they are struggling to get hold of you to conclude this issue. Could you set some time to respond to them please?

Thanks

ThePOGG

Hi ok57,

Have you had any further discourse with Grand Reef since we last spoke?

ThePOGG

Hi ok57,

I've chased Grand Reef about this issue and will let you know when I hear from them.

ThePOGG

Hi ok57,

Grand Reef have informed me that they requested bank details from you earlier in the week. If you've not received this email could you check your spam folder?

You can either provide the details directly to them or I can forward them on for you whatever suits (I'd prefer you to try directly first as I'd rather not have access to that information).

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi ok57,

I've contact Grand Reef at the end of last week to see if I can find out what the hold up is. I'll let you know as soon as I have some useful information.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi ok57,

Grand Reef casino have been in contact to confirm that the first payment has been sent. Can you confirm receipt?

Thanks,

ThePOGG

ok57 has confirmed that they've received the first payment of $500 on the 27th of June meaning that they should now have received a 2nd installment as they payments are due on a weekly basis. Can you confirm whether this has happened ok57? Could you also confirm the balance remaining to be paid.

ThePOGG

Hi ok57,

Thanks for confirming that you've only received 1 payment despite the agreement to pay $500/week and that the remaining balance owed is $7157.95.

I've just chased Grand Reef about this and hope to have a payment sent to you in the near future.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi ok57,

I've just spoken to Grand Reef and they've stated that 4 payments have been sent so far;

2014-05-29

2014-06-25

2014-07-01

2014-07-08 (this one is listed as pending)

Given that the payment you're aware of arrived on the 27th of June, which is a couple of days after the listed date of the 25th, could you check you bank account within a week either side of these dates to see if you have received funds. If you have not could you provide me with bank statements to go back to Grand Reef with.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi ok57,

I'm still discussing the two missing payments with Grand Reef who are adamant that these have been sent. By my reckoning you should have received 3 further payments and a 4th should be with you tomorrow. Can you confirm receipt of these payments?

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi ok57,

Just to keep you in the loop - I've chased this again and will let you know when I receive further information.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi ok57,

For my own records I want to say that ok57 has so far confirmed receipt of only 2 payments.

I have chased this again, but given the less than priority response this issue seems to be taking I don't expect a quick answer. I'll let you know when I hear something back.

ThePOGG

Hi ok57,

Grand Reef are saying that they've sent another payment last week. Can you confirm receipt?

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi ok57,

This is just for my own records so no need to respond - ok57 has confirmed that the stated payment has not been received, following up with Grand Reef.

ThePOGG

Hi ok57,

I've finally received proof of payment from Grand Reef and you're absolutely correct that only 2 payments have been made.

The rest of the payments are apparently sitting in "pending status waiting to be deployed". This is obviously a long way away from the $500 instalments that you were meant to receive on a regular base, but right now I'd suggest that Grand Reef are at least still talking about paying my thoughts are to humour this.

I've also been informed that this pending status is due to your bank declining the payments due to Dutch banking policy. Why some payments are being accepted and others rejected I cannot say.

Grand Reef have asked me to ask you whether you can provide a different bank account or preferably a Neteller account?

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi ok47,

Thanks for confirming that two further payments have come through.

This may be a slower process that would ideally preferred, but I'm sure you'll agree that the money's better turning up late than never.

ThePOGG

Hi ok47,

I'm following up again - have you received any further payments? I'm currently aware of 4.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi ok57,

I've finally got a full explanation for what the issue has been.

Your bank account - according to Grand Reef - used CAD as the currency, but the processor sending the money over is using USD. Your bank has a problem with processing USD transactions for gaming groups due to the UIGEA preventing US citizens from playing online. Their application is perhaps a little over zealous given that you're not a US citizen, but their procedures will simply be blanket applied. Hence payments being declined.

As such Grand Reef are going to try sending payments from an Australian account to see if that has more success.

You should expect to receive a payment sometime next week.

ThePOGG

Hi ok57,

Did you receive a payment last week?

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi ok57,

I've spoken again with Grand Reef - actually they got back to me before I chased them - they're aware of the issue, apparently another player is having a similar problem, and they are trying something else to get round it in the next week or two.

I'll update you as I find out more.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi ok57,

Grand Reef has confirmed that a payment has just been made and should show in your account in the next few days. Could you confirm when you receive it?

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi ok57,

Did you receive the last payment?

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi ok57,

Have you received a payment?

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi ok57,

Can you confirm receipt of a payment?

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi ok57,

Following your email last week, has the transaction shown on your bank statement?

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi ok57 - I have Grand Reef chasing me to find out if you've received a payment? They have another payment ready to go if they can confirm you received the last one.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi ok57,

I've received no communication from you since the 4th of November. This is not proving an obstacle to making any progress with this issue. Can you confirm receipt of any recent payments?

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi ok57,

I've just had conformation from Grand Reef that another payment has been sent. If you could keep an eye on your bank account and let me know when it arrives I'd appreciate it.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi ok57,

I've chased this with Grand Reef again, though I don't expect a response now until after New Year.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi ok57,

I understand and appreciate your frustration, but I would point out that every single payment so far has been akin to pulling teeth - i.e. a slow process. That this payment is dragging out again really isn't surprising.

I've chase the casino again and will let you know what I get back.

ThePOGG

Hi ok57,

I have had a couple of responses from my contact at Grand Reef. They haven't yet found out what's causing the delay but are chasing it. I'll let you know as soon as I hear something.

ThePOGG

Hi ok57,

Just to let you know I have chased this and Grand Reef are 'investigating this issue with their payment provider/bank'. I'll let you know when I hear more.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi ok57,

Here's the response I've received from Grand Reef;

"The bank has confirmed that the payment was done on the 11/12/2014 they asked that he check his bank acc from the 10/12/2014."

Could you check your bank statements from the 10th of December on and if no payment shows send me statement evidence (as before) for me to take back to the casino.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi ok57

Here's the latest I've received from Grand Reef;

Please take note of the following feedback pertaining [EDIT].

The bank has confirmed that the payment was done on the 11/12/2014 they asked that he check his bank acc from the 10/12/2014.

Can you please investigate and let me know.

Can you check your bank statement and if the funds are not there forward photos/screenshots to support this.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi ok57,

Just to let you know I've gone back to the casino with the dates of the most recent payments and asked them to explain why the charges were so high on the most recent payment.

ThePOGG

Hi ok57,

I've spoken with Grand Reef casino - they can no longer make Skrill payments to Canadian players and as such returning funds to your deposit method is not a possibility.

They are looking into why the transactions fees were so much higher for this payment and I'll feed back to you once I have an answer.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi ok57,

Grand Reef have asked me to ask you to query the charges with your bank. They say they don't charge any fees on withdrawals and as such these fees must have been taken by your bank.

If you can let me know what your bank say I'll revert to Grand Reef.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi ok57,

I've spoken to Grand Reef about the short payment and they are currently investigating this.

In the meantime they tell me they've sent another payment which should be with you on the 2nd or the 3rd at the latest.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi ok57,

Grand Reef are refuting sending anything less than $500. I need you to get your bank to provide a letter on headed paper stating that the transaction sent to your account was only for $464. If you can provide that I'll go back to the casino with credible evidence that they've not been honest.

Could you also check your account and see if the latest payment has arrived.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi ok57,

Grand Reef are telling me that your bank are now requesting your passport number to allow them make a transfer to you. I don't know why that would suddenly be the case, unless of course Grand Reef are changing processing companies regularly. Could you forward this information on to them?

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Ho ok57,

I wanted to update you on my position on this issue. Two weeks ago I sent through an email to Grand Reef management including the attached letter from your bank showing that the payment sent was indeed less that then agreed $500. I basically said that I didn't feel that they were being at all honest and that the delays in payment had all the hallmarks of intent.

While I have received feedback on other issues related to this group I've received nothing since about your own. I've just followed up on this email giving a deadline of next Friday (the 3rd of April) to offer a plan of action for the transfer of the remaining funds. If nothing's in place by this time I'll be closing this complaint and marking it up as a case of 'non-payment'.

ThePOGG

Hi ok57,

Unfortunately Grand Reef have offered no response what-so-ever to either their short payment nor their complete failure to engage with a payment timetable they set out.

I no longer have any faith that Grand Reef are engaging with this process at all honestly. In my opinion the delays in the payment have been intentional and the payment turning up confirmed short by your bank demonstrates a previously unapproached level of dishonesty.

It has been three weeks since I sent their management an email detailing all of my concerns and offering them the opportunity to take action to rectify the situation. Since that point I have received no response what-so-ever. As stated above, I view this as clear evidence that they have no intention of honouring their arrangement.

As such I am closing this complaint as 'Found for the Player' and all Commission365 venues will now be moved to our Blacklist due to their dishonest and disreputable practices.

ThePOGG

Hi ok57,

Grand Reef have got back to me. They are insisting that they are trying their best to get your funds to you and that they need a passport number from you before they can do anything further. If you can forward this on to them you may be able to regain more of your funds.

I don't hold a lot of faith in this process at the present time, but I can't see any harm in trying.

ThePOGG

Hi ok57,

I've heard back from Grand Reef who have informed me that another payment will be made today and should be in your account by Monday.

No explanation has been offered regarding the payment that they supposedly sent out, though I presume this to be an acceptance that this payment has not been received/not been sent.

Let me know if you receive this payment.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi ok57,

I've had an email from Grand Reef stating that 3 payments should have been received over the last few months. Can you confirm this?

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi ok57,

If you've not received full payment of your balance by this point I'd ask that you get in contact as we may have some in roads with Grand Reef's regulator.

Thanks,

ThePOGG