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Hi dls1984 - welcome back.

Unfortunately it's unlike we can do anything to help you in this case.

You state in your complaint that you feel that because you ask for your account to be closed "permanently" that this should qualify it as a Responsible Gambling closure. Unfortunately that's simply not the case. 

In legitimate Responsible Gambling closures the player is asking to the operator to take responsibility for their activities as they player does not feel capable of doing this themselves. For an operator to take on this responsibility it has to be made clear that the player is not capable of managing their own gambling activities. As such specific vernacular has been developed to help players express when they're having an issue.

Lots of players request that their account be closed "permanently" for reasons other than an inability to control their gambling. Generally this indicated a dissatisfaction with the service rather than a problem gambling issue. As such simply asking for a permanent account closure does not qualify a closure request as a Responsible Gambling closure.

It concerns me that you don't seem to be acknowledging that you have any problem gambling issues - the issues seem to relate to your unhappiness with the service and bonus schemes - yet you're looking to use Responsible Gambling to justify your claim.

If you believe that you have been clear with the operator that your closure requests were due to problem gambling (have made a clear statement to their representatives that you are not in control) then we would look further into this, but if the extent of your claim is that you used the word permanent I'm afraid there's nothing we can do to help you.

With regard to address information for MT Secure Trade, we can only point you to their UKGC licensing information which contains an address for this operator - <a href="https://secure.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/PublicRegister/Search/Detail/39575" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">https://secure.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/PublicRegister/Search/Detail/39575</a>.

Sorry we can't be of more help,

ThePOGG

I wanted self exclusion and believed this was the way to request it.
I feel that it should have been checked in this case and they should have asked why I wanted a permanent closure and whether this was related to a self exclusion. In most cases the casino did not even check why I wanted to close.
Regardless I was self excluded with ikibu yet they still accepted me at Toms and I believe other casinos although they won't respond to my emails.
From what I also understand they are affiliated with other casinos too but won't tell me such as the Betit group. I simply get no response.
My solicitor would like a phone number or email to make proceedings quicker yet they won't provide this and keep referring to the address stated above. With the response rate I have been getting front MT Secure I am not confident that if I write to them they will be helpful or we will get a response

Hi dls1984,

While I understand why you may feel that way, if you have not been clear with the operator that you were experiencing gambling issues there's no reason that they would manage your complaint under Responsible Gambling policies. As pointed out above the word permanent is not used exclusively by problem gamblers.

We can enquire about the communication records surrounding your account closures to ensure proper protocol has been followed, but I need to be clear that the use of the work permanent by itself would not be enough to rule the complaint in your favour.

We cannot help you with a phone number for this group and won't distribute private email addresses for any casino employee. If their legal team has concluded that they have met their legal requirements on this front they will not hand us additional information to provide you. I would suggest getting your solicitor to write to them and send their communication recorded post.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi dls1984,

I've spoken with the MT Secure Trade group about this issue.

This is a complicated issue and appears to revolve around a request for Self-Exclusion at Ikibu that was not correctly actioned. 

From what the operator has told us you've already received your deposits refunded from Cashmio, Toms and Ikibu.

At ShadowBet you have withdrawn more than deposited and as such no refund would be due.

Your InstaCasino account was closed for non-Responsible Gambling reasons before the Self-Exclusion at Ikibu and as such no refund would be due.

Finally your Dunder account - apparently efforts have been made to contact you to arrange a refund.

Can you confirm that you've spoken with Dunder casino?

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Thank you for your response
Instacasino was closed with the expectation rhat no other  accounts with any MT Secure casino could be reopened
It was my mistake as I said I wanted it permanently closed and thought that this was the same, nevertheless I feel that they should have asked me to explain that this did not constitute a self exclusion

I’ve heard nothing from Dunder or the other sites that I believe I may have had accounts with
If you could assist with this that would be good 

Many thanks

Dunder have now contacted me
How do I encourage the other sites under the MT Secure group to respond?

I’ve also do not believe I have received any refunds on my deposits from ikibu

Please can you double check that with them

Hi dls1984,

I've reviewed your communications with InstaCasino surrounding your account closure. While you do use the word "permanent" you make explicitly clear in every instance where you insist on your account being closed that this is because you're unhappy with the bonuses being offered to you. At no point do you behave erratically or seem emotionally out of control and you make no mention of having any gambling issue. In fact you provide the operator with another perfectly reasonable explanation for wanting your account closed. There's no reason that the operative you spoke to would raise Responsible Gambling as there's no indication that you're experiencing issues.

I'm sorry to say that deposits made between your InstaCasino closure request and your Ikibu self-exclusion would not be subject to refund.

I'll make enquiries about the Ikibu refund for you but I do know off-hand that the total refund issued was €372.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Thank you I would appreciate that
For toms casino as well I believe this only went back to January 2017 rather than before

Hi dls1984,

I've spoken with the operator again. With regard to Ikibu the following payments were made to your credit cards:

150 GBP was paid to [EDIT] the 24th November 2016
ARN: [EDIT]

165 GBP was paid to [EDIT] the 24th November 2016
ARN: [EDIT]

As to your Tom's casino account - you are correct and you're due a further refund of €3640. Tom's casino has now closed so the operator cannot make a refund to the deposit methods used nor do they have your contact details for that account. They've requested that you provide your IBAN and Swift number and they'll make a bank transfer to you.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Thank you
What can I do about the other MT Secure trade sites?
I’ve contacted Toms in their iCloud gaming site
I really appreciate your assistance with this

Can you confirm the address for toms as I am not receiving any response from them
Thanks
[EDIT]

Hi dls1984,

We're dealing with all of these operators via a single contact at MT Secure Trade. I do not have permission to share their contact details. If you forward these details on I'll pass them to MT Secure Trade.

Regarding the other properties - as far as I can see all refunds that should have been made have been at this stage. Which properties specifically are you still wanting reviewed and I'll make enquiries.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

It’s Tom Casino that is not responding 
I have sent them by Iban details in a screenshot as requested by them. I have now way of pasting them into the screenshot in here but the Iban is [EDIT]

I don’t believe Ikibu have given me a full refund and asked them for the transactions but they won’t respond
I’m still unhappy that my request for permanent closure from Instacasino was not taken as self exclusion but appreciate all the help you’ve provided with the other sites
I’m not confident that I didn’t have accounts with sites like risk and guts etc

Hi dls1984,

I understand that Tom's Casino are not responding. Tom's Casino have closed! The license holder is dealing with this issue directly.

As explained to you previously, I've reviewed your closure request and all communication surrounding it at InstaCasino and it would not qualify as a Responsible Gambling closure. You did not make clear to the operator that you were having problems controlling your gambling and specifically provided the involved agent with a reasonable reason outside of problem gambling for closing your account. I appreciate that you are unhappy with this but there's no justification for the operator to have managed this closure under Responsible Gambling policies.

I'll make enquiries about the Ikibu transaction list.

Regarding other accounts, I can ask whether you had accounts with other operators but without you providing details it becomes far more difficult to establish if there are other accounts.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Ok thank you
Sorry to be so persistent. I am just eager to get these issues resolved.
Should I wait to hear back from toms casino or should i deal with you directly?
I appreciate all the help you’ve provided to date

Hi dls1984,

I entirely understand - I'm simply ensuring that our position on what we can/cannot support are clear.

I'll revert to you when I have further information.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi dls1984,

Before I revert to the operator I need you to provide the BIC/Swift code for your bank as well.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi
Is there any update on this please? 
Many Thanks

Hi dls1984,

The person responsible for this at MT Secure Trade has been out of the office for a week. I'll revert to you once we've had a response from them.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi dls1984,

Firstly your refund from Tom's Casino has been processed to the details you provided. This should show in your account in the coming days.

Secondly I asked about any additional accounts and MT Secure Trade have stated that there are no other accounts associated with your name at any of their operators.

Finally, below you'll find a full list of your transactions at Ikiibu:


2016-11-22 12:00:32	Purchase	50.00 Visa Credit Card	[EDIT]

2016-11-22 13:22:43	Purchase	100.00 Visa Credit Card	[EDIT]

2016-11-22 14:30:36	Purchase	100.00	Visa Credit Card  [EDIT]

2016-11-22 15:22:52	Purchase	50.00 Visa Credit Card	[EDIT]

2016-11-22 15:40:40	Purchase 15.00  Visa Credit Card	[EDIT]

2016-11-24 15:07:49	Withdraw	150.00 Visa Credit Card	[EDIT]

2016-11-24 15:08:11	Withdraw	165.00	Visa Credit Card   [EDIT]

I hope this addresses all your concerns,

ThePOGG

Thank you for all your assistance I really appreciate it
Can I confirm whether the toms account refund was in euros or sterling?
I had accounts with a number of other secure trade sites including rizk, shadow bet, guts and cashmio

Hi dls1984,

I asked about accounts other than the ones that had already been discussed in this thread. Guts, ShadowBet and Cashmio have already been covered. The operator have not found an account for you with Rizk.

I would presume € as the figure I was given was €3731.01.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

An incorrectly actioned self-exclusion has been identified and the player has been refunded all subsequent deposits by the MT Secure Trade platform.

After my old case with Toms casino I asked to be self excluded but then they reopened my account. I then researched who was part of MT Secure Trading casinos and realised Instacasino was that I was self excluded with in June 2016.
 
 I asked for permanent closure, and for the account not to be reopened which in my mind was a self exclusion. They are saying this was not the case, however that is what I intended by using these words.
 
 I know there is little chance you can recover the money for me, however I would like a straight answer from the casino on how I can contact their legal team and pass these details onto my solicitor. They are not being transparent at all and there is nothing on the gaming innovation group website. Please can you help. Full history of accounts can be found below.
 
 Casino
 Opened Date
 Closed Date
 Reason
 Reopened
 
 Guts
 21/05/2014
 25/05/2014
 Disappointment with service
 
 Instacasino
 27/05/2016
 15/06/2016
 Requested never to be reopened
 
 Cashmio
 16/06/2017
 12/07/2016
 None given
 
 Toms
 24/07/2016
 01/09/2016
 Not enough bonuses and withdrawals take too long to process
 24/01/2017
 
 ShadowBet
 10/11/2016
 21/11/2016
 
 Ikibu
 22/11/2016
 24/11/2016
 Self excluded
 
 Dunder
 14/04/2017
 07/10/2016
 Bonuses
 
 Chancehill
 No response
 
 Betspin
 No response
 
 Casinoland
 No account
 

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