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Hi sisilina - welcome to ThePOGG.com!

To be blunt, I think you're making a very tenuous argument here. Transferring money out of the casino is effectively 'withdrawing' it. To then transfer it back in in order to trigger a bonus that is intended to encourage fresh deposits is to my mind in violation of this term.

However, if this rule is being applied inconsistently - i.e. you've been allowed to lose before and these haven't been reset - then there is an case to review here. As such I will contact the operator and look to get their side of the story for you.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hello,

I want to say that english is not my first language, but I think that transfer and withdraw are different.  If I can't transfer then they should say that.

For the second part, I have been allowed to lose many times before (maybe 10 times I'm not really sure how many) and they don't say anything to me until I win.  Thank you for the help.

Hi sisilina,

I appreciate what you're saying, but transferring and withdrawing have the same fundamental effect. When you transferred money out of the casino you 'withdrew' it from your casino wallet. To then transfer it back to trigger the bonus is at best questionable and at worst a flat breach of terms. 

As I said I am following up with the operator regarding the inconsistent application of this term.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

I understand what you are saying that it is the same fundamental.  However that still doesnt make it the same.  Especially when there are two different options in the cashier, one is transfer and another is withdraw.

Thank you for following up with the operator.  I will wait your news.

Hello, I was wondering if there has been any update on my case?

Hi sisilina,

I simply don't accept that you don't understand that transferring funds out of the casino wallet has exactly the same impact as withdrawing. In fact you are withdrawing funds from your casino wallet to your sports/main wallet. That's not an argument I'm happy to make for you as I fundamentally don't agree with it.

I am involved in an ongoing conversation with the operator related to your transactions and what funds were legitimate and which transactions were in breach of this term. When I've concluded that conversation I'll get back to you with a response.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hello, I agree it has the same impact.  As I said before that doesn't make it the same thing.  When reading a contract what matters is what it says, not the impact it is meant to have.  However, I understand your point of view and it doesn't seem like I'm going to win this argument.

Thank you for following up with the operator regarding the inconsistent application of this term.  I will wait your news.

Hi sisilina,

You're absolutely right that contracts can't be misleading, but simply put I don't believe you've been mislead hear. I've been clear about that. In fact, having looked at your play I'm very confident that you knew that you weren't meant to receive bonuses in this manner. In other words you were trying to play a loophole and hoping no-one noticed. The alternative is that you simply weren't aware of the term, having failed to read the terms properly. In either case it wasn't the use of the word 'withdrawal' rather than 'transfer' that created the problem. 

This wasn't noticed earlier by the operator because there were extended periods of losses, but when you won you won big. Working on the assumption that you're a smart player if you combine high variance strategies with attempts to exploit term technicalities (rather than beating the games) you're always going to run into huge problems.

As things stand it appears to me that the first of your two big wins was entirely legitimate and the operator is looking to use violations on subsequent bonus play to void those funds. That's not okay. I believe you're still due around $2.7k from your previous win and I'm talking to the operator about that at the moment.

ThePOGG

Hi sisilina,

After extended conversation with the management at Intertops they have made the decision that they are unwilling to comply with our decision in this case.

I will provide a detailed assessment of this case below:

On the 28th of November you deposited $500, transferred this to the casino wallet and received a $500 bonus. You went on to complete the wagering requirement concluding with a balance of $9593.95.

There has been no suggestion that the above win is invalid.

After this point you did not withdraw all of these funds and instead on several occasion transferred money back into the casino wallet to trigger further bonuses. In my opinion this does represent a breach of terms specifically in relation to a failure to make fresh deposits for any bonus received. This is where the point of contention arises. A list of your deposits in breach of this term are as follows:

1st of December - $500 
3rd of December - $500
7th of December - $400
7th of December - $400
7th of December - $400
21st of December - $700

You bust out on each of these deposits barring the last one where you ended with a balance of $9105.95.

Give the violation of terms Intertops argue, rightly in our opinion, that the winnings from the last deposit have to be considered void. However terms have to be applied consistently and if winnings are to be considered void, the losing deposit where this same term were violated also have to be considered void. 

Intertops have refused to concede this point instead insisting that as you've now been paid out more than you've deposited over the lifetime of your account there's no grounds for making any further payments. 

The lifetime record of deposits vs withdrawals has no bearing on this specific situation and equates to the the operator insisting that players have to lose if they want to be paid wins. There are no terms prohibiting players from being overall winners for obvious reasons.

The simple facts here are that where a significant win has occurred Intertops are enforcing bonus terms to void that win. Where losses occurred, Intertops are ignoring the bonus term violations and retaining the lost deposits.

We cannot and will not support any operator found to be selectively enforcing bonus terms to their own benefit and as such Intertops and their associated properties have been moved to Not Recommended status. 

Unfortunately as Intertops do not currently appear to hold any form of license we cannot even direct you on to another body to escalate your complaint.

Sorry we cannot be of further help.

ThePOGG

Hello, Im disappointed that Intertops is not going to do the right thing.  I appreciate your help with my case.  I thought that Intertops was licensed by the Kahnawake Gaming Commission?  I find that information on a couple of sites, but I dont see it on the intertops or the Kahnawake webpage.

Hi sisilina,

Unfortunately the KGC had to rescind the licenses of all operators that were still accepting US players over the course of 2016. Intertops used to be licensed by the KGC but now provide no licensing information.

ThePOGG

Intertops are enforcing bonus terms only where it financially benefits them to do so and have been moved to Not Recommended status.

Hello,
 
 Intertops casino sent me this email after I tried to withdraw from my account:
 
 "This e-mail is to advise you that your pending withdrawal via Neteller for US$2500 has been declined as in checking your account the terms and conditions were not adhered to.
 
 
 
 Rule and regulations:
 
 2.3 If customers withdraw money from their account and then return it, they will not be eligible for a re-deposit bonus.
 
 
 
 As a result of the above US$9100.95 has been deducted from your account as you are in violation of our terms and conditions (bonus was claimed on US$700 transfer to the casino which is not an actual deposit).
 
 
 
 The practice of transferring winnings to the casino and claiming bonuses has been done on numerous occasions.
 
 
 
 Should you require any further information or assistance, please feel free to contact us."
 
 The rule 2.3 says that I am not eligible for a bonus if I withdraw and return the money. I did not withdraw. I had from before that were in the sportsbook and I transferred $700 to the casino and claimed a bonus. This however is not withdrawing and returning. There are many options in the cashier, one is transfer and another is withdraw. They are different. If I can't claim a bonus with a transfer then they should say that, or not give me the bonus.
 
 I often leave money in my account to play with later and I only withdraw if I have a big win. They don't say anything to me about this when I lose. Only after I win. I think they are making up excuses to unfairly not pay me.

Intertops - Winnings confiscated for transfering money

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