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Karjala - Self-exclusion rights were broken

Ruling

Found for the Casino - MT SecureTrade have provided sufficient evident to demonstrate that submissions made by this player have been non-genuine in nature. As such our involvement in this case has been terminated.

Read our Karjala Casino Review.

Player's Complaint

Turns out I am self-exclude from a list of casinos under the AgentSpinner and KarjalaKasinos licensing company and they allowed me to join and lose in excess of $4,000 plus over the corse of 2 weeks before blocking my account and saying I am self-excluded. It is impossible for me to know all the sites that operate under the same company . They should have never allowed me to create a account let alone Lose thousands of dollars. Two weeks after losing the money they closed my account and said I am not entitled to a refund. A Self-exclusion is law bidding and they did not take the correct measures to protect me as a problem gambler. I am entitled to a Full Refund.

I have chats and documents to support this.

Read the casino review

25 Responses

ThePOGG
December 3, 2019

Hi nickrone - welcome to ThePOGG.com!

As we are the ADR for the MT Secure Trade license under the Malta Gaming Authority license there is certain information we have to provide you now.

You can find all the relevant information about this service here – http://thepogg.com/terms-of-use/ and the terms of use for our complaint service here - https://thepogg.com/terms-of-use-for-dispute-resolution-service/

To summarise.

– Use of this service does not preclude your seeking redress through court proceedings .

– This service is free to use for both the complainant and operator.

– At any point during the procedure the submitting party retains the right to withdraw their complaint. This does not preclude our right to continue the discussion with the involved operator of general issues related to the complaint (i.e. insufficiently clear terms and conditions).

– You are not obliged to obtain independent or legal advice or representation, though you may choose to do so.

If you have any questions about the above, let me know.

Before we go any further - when you made your self-exclusion request to this group did you request that it be extended to all properties on the license?

Thanks,

ThePOGG

nickrone
December 3, 2019

Yes when I applied for the self-exclusion I advocated to make it affected across all associated sites. I was then advised that it would happen automatically and I would be protected from creating any accounts.

ThePOGG
January 10, 2020

Hi nickrone,

I've discussed this issue with Karjala. On the 25/02/2017 you requested a self-exclusion on the Live Chat service at Guts casino. At this point you requested a 1 year self-exclusion that concluded on the 25/02/2018. You opened accounts with AgentSpinner on 21/11/2019 and Karjala on the 30/11/2019 - after the conclusion of your previously requested self-exclusion. As such there would be no restriction on you signing-up and playing at this point.

Due to concerns regarding some comments you made on Live Chat recently the operator has taken the decision to exclude all your accounts for a further year.

I hope the above helps clarify this situation for you.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

nickrone
January 10, 2020

That information they gave you in incorrect. I have the document I received by Data protection GIG. What email should I send it to so you can view it?

nickrone
January 10, 2020

I have emailed the document supporting my claim to [email protected] After entering the password click on “Block History”.

ThePOGG
February 9, 2020

Hi nickrone,

I've discussed this issue with the operator. The block you are referring to (having been put in place on the 29/01/2018) was put in place by the operator, not yourself, and as such would not automatically carry over to other properties on the license. Unless you have asked for this to be extended to all properties on the license this block would not carry over to Karjala.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

nickrone
February 9, 2020

The information that they have given you is incorrect again. I have forwarded you the chat with the Karjala agent. Please check your email ([email protected]).

ThePOGG
February 11, 2020

Hi nickrone,

Yes nickrone, we are aware of this but it does not change the facts. The support agent has simply been operating off of incomplete information. The exclusion in question was put in place by the operator. As such it does not carry over. The only factor that could influence this would be if you have specifically asked that this exclusion carries over. If you have a record of such an interaction please forward it on to us.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

nickrone
February 11, 2020

Here are the Terms and Conditions posted on there site that can be found under Responsible Gambling.

"Self-exclusion allows you to take a break from gambling, if it becomes something else other than fun and entertainment. During the chosen period all online accounts that you hold with MT SecureTrade Limited will be subject to your self-exclusion request. This facility is available online here when logged in or by contacting our Customer Service team.

During this period we will not send you any marketing material and we cannot accept any deposits or bets".

So this clearly proves my case here as how they broke there own policy. So as they state ALL online accounts that are held with MT SecureTrade Limited will be subject to a Self-Exclusion and CANNOT accept any DEPOSITS or BETS.

So if this is still not enough evidence please let me know.

ThePOGG
February 14, 2020

Hi nickrone,

I'm afraid you are incorrect. The term is "self-exclusion". By definition this is an exclusion put in place by you, hence the use of the word "self". Where the operator chooses to exclude an account this is not a "self-exclusion" and as such not subject to the rules as advertised in your quote.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

nickrone
February 14, 2020

I will be emailing you the chat-log tonight where I specifically ask for a self-exclusion across all there sites.

nickrone
February 14, 2020

Ok i have now emailed you the Chat Trans script with Agent Spinner where I specifically ask to be self-excluded from all associated sites. Having said that the self-exclusion will exclude me from all MT SecureTrade Limited casinos "Karjala" included. And the pervious chat trans script i sent you with the Karjala agent clearly confirms this and states i am self-excluded until Dec 2 2020.

I have now sent and complied with all ur demands to show that i am truly a victim here and i hope you can see that now.

ThePOGG
February 25, 2020

Hi nickrone,

I'm uncomfortable with your use of the word "demands". We have not "demand[ed]" anything from you. To date I have simply explained the licensing rules and how they function.

The chat transcript you forwarded is dated 30/11/2019. Did any play occur after this point?

Thanks,

ThePOGG

nickrone
February 25, 2020

Yes, Karjala allowed me to create an account and lose $4000 after this date. It wasn’t until December that Karjala realized I had a active self-exclusion and should have never let me open an account let alone lose so much money and closed the account down.

nickrone
March 30, 2020

It’s been over a month now with no response. Just looking for a update please, thank you

ThePOGG
April 10, 2020

Hi nickrone,

A dialogue is ongoing with the regulator regarding this matter. You will be informed when that discourse is concluded.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

ThePOGG
May 29, 2020

Hi nickrone,

Can you please, using your phone, create a video showing you logging into your email account, searching your inbox to locate the email dated November 30 2019 at 7:09:35 AM EST from Agent Spinner containing your Live Chat transcript and show us the full transcripts. Once you have created this video let us know and I'll provide details of how you can send it to us.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

nickrone
May 29, 2020

Okay i made the video for you. It is a large file size as i recored it in medium - high quality so it would be more clear.

ThePOGG
June 2, 2020

Hi nickrone, You can use this service to send us the file - wetransfer.com/ Thanks, ThePOGG

nickrone
June 3, 2020

Okay i have uploaded the video to (wetransfer.com/) and put your email ([email protected]). Hope this is now everything you need. Also the link says it will be up for 7 days.

ThePOGG
June 3, 2020

Hi nickrone,

Thanks for your submission.

Unfortunately it missed several key points.

Firstly, the video needs to be recorded on your phone showing the screen, not with screen capture technology.

Second it must show you logging into to your email address. Going to an already logged in email address is not sufficient.

If you can redo the video and send it over that would be appreciated.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

nickrone
June 4, 2020

Okay i have taken another video as you requested. I made sure to include the key points. I made the video with my iphone and me logging into Gmail using safari from my apple computer.

you should receive the link any minute now

at: [email protected]

i hope this is everything needed now.

nickrone
June 23, 2020

It has now been 3 weeks since I uploaded the video as u requested. Just looking for a update.

nickrone
July 18, 2020

been 6 weeks now since i sent you the video you requested. Can i have a update please and thank you

ThePOGG
July 20, 2020

MT SecureTrade have provided sufficient evident to demonstrate that submissions made by this player have been non-genuine in nature. As such our involvement in this case has been terminated.

No further posts will be approved on this thread.

ThePOGG

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Agreement

nickrone consented for ThePOGG to act on their behalf and share the personal information that they provide to ThePOGG with the following agencies for the purposes of resolving their complaint:

  • Karjala Kasino
  • Malta Gaming Authority
  • United Kingdom Gambling Commission
  • MT SecureTrade Limited

December 3, 2019

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland sits to the north-west of mainland Europe. The United Kingdom shares a border with The Republic of Ireland and has coasts on the Atlantic Ocean, Celtic Sea, North Sea, Irish Sea and English Channel. The population of the UK is approaching the 67.6 million mark leading to a fairly densely populated land mass. The gambling sector in the United Kingdom is entirely regulated and licensed by the UKGC – the United Kingdom Gambling Commission. Should players resident In the UK wish to gamble with foreign based operators there is no history of this being treated as a criminal offence, but high levels of protection exist for UK residents playing with UK licensed operators.