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Magic Red – Casino forced user to continue to play + casino steels real-money from account

Ruling

Resolved - A payment delay issue has been resolved and both Magic Red Casino and the player have confirmed that the player has received their funds.

Read our Magic Red Casino Review.

Player's Complaint

First of all: I assume that mediation is not legally binding until both parties agree on, as the amount in dispute is EUR 29,000 or EUR 13,000. If no clarification with the casino is possible here, the case will be discussed with the responsible casino authorities.

Happend on 30. July 2019 afternoon/evening:

- Deposit of 1000 EUR, valid for "Casino" and not "Live Casino" games.

- Got unwanted bonus of 200 EUR and contact chat support who removed (reversed) the bonus upon my request.So never played with that bonus money, even not in Live Casino since the bonus money is not-sticky according to casino terms.

- It is explicitly stated that in the casino it is first played with real money.

- Same procedure with two other 1000 EUR deposits on the same day. Got another bonus money and always removed with help of chat support.

- Had luck in games and money increased to 30.000 EUR. The money was shown in the webinterface as "Real Money" and not as "bonus money".

- Did want to cash out money, converted membership points: Got additional 23 EUR.

- Did want to trigger cash out, but system declided due to active bonus (the 23 EUR). Did see that the membership point conversion was not to real money, but to bonus money.

- Contact chat that I only want to withdraw the real money and they can remove/keep the 23 EUR if necessary.

- Chat support stated this is not possible. I'm forced to continue to play. No chance to return my "real money".

AT THIS POINT I think this is the 1st very questionable problem. Is a casino really allowed to declide cashout of real money according to regulations?

And especially are they allowed to FORCE players to continue in such a way? I assume thing violates anything to take care about Responsible Gaming?!

(Please note, I already submitted a case for this at 30th July 2019 at 21:16)

- Due to the mentioned mandatory continue of games, continued to fulfil the requirements of the 23 EUR bonus.

- Lost money down to 14.000 EUR (shown completely as real-money).

- Nevertheless, the bonus conditions have been fulfilled.

- System allowed now to trigger the withdrawal of 14.000 EUR.

- Some hours or 1 day later Casino sent mail that denied withdrawal of 14.000, removed 13.000 EUR from the account and credited 1.000 EUR again.

- Since assumed that 13.000 EUR is pending processing now, triggered the withdrawal of the 1.000 EUR again shown in webinterface.

Sent mail to casino ([email protected]) but got no answer until today (for 1 month now).

Chatting with live support did gave statements like there was still a bonus active. The webinterface did show all bonuses canceled or completed.

They did mean their is another bonus from the beginning, but upon request they were not able to provide the Bonus ID in the system. Later, they declided any further information on this case and pointed to [email protected] .

Raised this topic at gamblejoe.com forum [EDIT]

with screenshots, proofs etc.

A "Casino Manager" responded and confirmed that all bonuses have been successfully removed from my account upon request.

He pointed out that some wagering is required to cash out bonus, but as mentioend this have fulfiled so no unfulfiled bonus conditions have been left.

Casino does not respond to email to [email protected], Casino Manager in the mentioned forum does not reply anymore -- also not to private questions and is pointing to there (not responding) customer support.

I can provide further attachments/screenshots.

Read the casino review

15 Responses

ThePOGG
Sep 01, 2019

Hi blinky58 - welcome to ThePOGG.com!

As we are the ADR for the Apsire Global license under the Malta Gaming Authority license there is certain information we have to provide you now.

You can find all the relevant information about this service here – http://thepogg.com/terms-of-use/ and the terms of use for our complaint service here - https://thepogg.com/terms-of-use-for-dispute-resolution-service/

To summarise.

– Use of this service does not preclude your seeking redress through court proceedings .

– This service is free to use for both the complainant and operator.

– At any point during the procedure the submitting party retains the right to withdraw their complaint. This does not preclude our right to continue the discussion with the involved operator of general issues related to the complaint (i.e. insufficiently clear terms and conditions).

– You are not obliged to obtain independent or legal advice or representation, though you may choose to do so.

If you have any questions about the above, let me know.

To answer your question, the monetary value of your complaint would preclude this service offering a legally binding ruling as it exceeds that which could be managed by the small claims court (or local equivalent).

With regard to your claim - when you accept a bonus you accept the terms and conditions associated with the bonus. The relevant Aspire Global term is as follows:

"Deposits may be withdrawn before a player’s wagering requirements have been fulfilled. However, if this occurs, all bonuses and winnings will be voided/removed from the player’s account. Players must contact support in order to withdraw their deposit."

The term is explicit that if you choose to withdraw prior to meeting the wagering requirements associated with bonuses you have claimed, that you will only be able to withdraw your deposit. Any bonuses you received or winnings you may have incurred would be withheld in this situation.

This is not a Responsible Gambling issue, simply an issue of you completing the requirements of the promotional incentive you decided to accept.

However I am not totally clear about what's been going on here as you seem to have lost a lot - likely more than the wagering requirement that would have been associated with a 23 EUR bonus - so we're going to contact the operator and make enquiries as to what exactly has transpired here.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

blinky58
Sep 02, 2019

Hello!

Thanks!

The problem is, that all bonuses have been canceled ours before and the money was explicitily "real money" and not bonus money.

Imagine you have 30.000 EUR real money and want to start withdrawal. The only step before withdrawal is to convert your membership points (the 23 EUR). Unfortunately this was expected to become real money and not bonus money. This is now blocking your real money withdrawal? A bit strange, since this 23 EUR were not used.
The system did not allow to do the withdrawal.

Then, after wagering a lot and account down to 14.000 EUR, the bonus condition for the 23 EUR have been fulfilled (visibile in a screenshot). This is why the system allowed now to do the withdrawal of the 14.000 EUR. But during withdrawal process, MagicRed removed 13.000 EUR from the account.

Again it is worth to mention that is was not played with bonus money. The (unwanted) received bonuses for the deposits have been reverted by the chat support. And according to terms and condition of MagicRed you always play first with "real money" found in your account, not with bonus money.

Thanks + regards
[EDIT]

blinky58
Sep 02, 2019

Sorry, typo: "have been canceled *h*ours before"

blinky58
Oct 08, 2019

Can you please provide a short update?

Regular progress or some delays due to unresponsiveness of the casino like I face with them whenever I ask for details?

Thanks + regards,
[EDIT]

ThePOGG
Nov 08, 2019

Hi blinky58,

Firstly apologies for the delay. We have been having issue getting the licensee to respond to this issue.

I've spoken to the regulator about this matter and they've asked us to request that you contact them direct and they will pursue the licensee to respond to us. You can submit your complaint here - https://www.mga.org.mt/support/online-gaming-support/.

Please make clear in your submission to the regulator that you have already complained to Magic Red's ADR ThePOGG.com Ltd and that the ADR has requested you contact the MGA as they are receiving no response to this issue.

Please let us know once you have done this.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

blinky58
Nov 08, 2019

Hi!

Thanks for your reply on this!

I have already contacted MGA multiple times in August but have never got an reply.

Can I please understand whether you have explained the case to them already?

Since you get a response and have been able to get in touch with them: Ca you maybe mention to MGA them that I raised this already? They will find it in their systems. I have raised it using my email address [EDIT] on 30th July 2019 (21:16 CET) and 31st August 2019 (14:43 CET).

Thanks + regards,
[EDIT]

ThePOGG
Nov 08, 2019

Hi blinky58,

Did you use the complaint submission form or did you email the MGA?

Thanks,

ThePOGG

blinky58
Nov 08, 2019

I submitted now multiple times a reply, but it looks like I cannot send it.
So one time more: test.

blinky58
Nov 08, 2019

Ok, this time it worked. So again: I did use the complaint submission form.
However, MGA tells me they cannot find it in their systems. However I had received a confirmation mail end of July and also end of August.

I have raised another complaint using the webform and mentioned what you asked me for.

ThePOGG
Nov 13, 2019

Hi blinky58,

I've discussed this issue with Magic Read and our understanding is that they will be sending your funds to your card ending [REMOVE]3519[REMOVE]. We would appreciate it if you could confirm when you receive these funds.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

blinky58
Nov 13, 2019

Hi! Thank you very much for your effort and time you invested in this case! I will monitor my card during the next days and immediately inform you once I see the amount credited.

Kind regards,
[EDIT]

blinky58
Nov 15, 2019

Hi!

MagicRed refunded the money to the player account in their casino. No notification mail or any other email regarding this topic have been sent from MagicRed to me.
Without your hint I would maybe never have realized that the money is available.

However, I found it and triggered the withdrawals (maximum 10.000 EUR, so two withdrawals). This time the withdrawals have been processed after 1h20m.
Some hours ago I checked my credit card via online banking and found the money credited.

Thanks a lot! You solved this case!

Nevertheless question as mentioned in the original complaint: What do you think about their behavior to not allow any withdrawals if bonus money (the 23 EUR) is available in a players account. Without their insisting to continue to play the amount would have been 30.000 EUR. It seems strange to me and maybe I can follow up on this with MGA.

Thanks for your help!

ThePOGG
Nov 15, 2019

Hi blinky58,

Once you have activated a bonus - in this case the €23 - you have agreed that your balance remains locked until you complete the wagering requirements. While I appreciate you would not have redeemed the comp points if you had been aware of this, it is your responsibility to ensure that you have read and understood the terms and conditions of any promotional incentives you claim before you claim them.

That the comp points prevented you form withdrawing is in line with the promotional terms and conditions and not something that we could contest.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

blinky58
Nov 15, 2019

Hi!

Thanks for clarification. However, not each terms&condition can be valid if it violates other law. With this, I have doubts. I asked for cancellation of the 23 EUR bonus money to proceed with the withdrawal but they refused to do so. And it should always be possible to leave somewhere with its real money.

For me you did do a great job and I have to say "Thank you!" again. The other topic I can maybe follow up with MGA.

Thanks + regards,
[EDIT]

ThePOGG
Nov 19, 2019

Hi blinky58,

The ADR system is provided in place of regulatory managed rulings. In this case we act on the behalf of the MGA.

With regard to your question, Magic Red Casino carries the following term:

"All of Magic Red's bonuses and winnings may only be cashed out after you have made at least one approved deposit and you have wagered at least 35 times (unless stated otherwise) of each bonus received – for example you must wager C$350 before cashing out if you have received a bonus of C$10.

Deposits may be withdrawn before a player’s wagering requirements have been fulfilled. However, if this occurs, all bonuses and winnings will be voided/removed from the player’s account. Players must contact support in order to withdraw their deposit."

If you had cancelled your bonus after redeeming it you would only have been entitled to withdraw deposited funds - i.e. all of your winnings would have been void. Technically, yes, you should have been allowed to cancel your redeemed comp points, but that would have been very detrimental to you winnings were significantly larger than the wagering requirement (23x35 = €805).

There's nothing illegal about what Magic Red have done here. They have enforced the terms that you agreed to. This has simply been a case of you choosing to redeem a bonus at a time that was disadvantageous to you.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

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Agreement

blinky58 consented for ThePOGG to act on their behalf and share the personal information that they provide to ThePOGG with the following agencies for the purposes of resolving their complaint:

  • Magic Red
  • Malta Gaming Authority
  • United Kingdom Gambling Commission
  • EXIT 42 LIMITED

August 31, 2019