Playzee - Confiscation of funds and contradictory response as to why

Hi kitty69 - welcome to ThePOGG.com.

Please ensure you have read our Complaint Guidance to ensure that fully understand how our complaint management process functions.

As we are the ADR for the White Hat Gaming license under the Malta Gaming Authority license there is certain information we have to provide you now.

You can find all the relevant information about this service here – http://thepogg.com/terms-of-use/ and the terms of use for our complaint service here - https://thepogg.com/terms-of-use-for-dispute-resolution-service/

To summarise.

– Use of this service does not preclude your seeking redress through court proceedings .

– This service is free to use for both the complainant and operator.

– At any point during the procedure the submitting party retains the right to withdraw their complaint. This does not preclude our right to continue the discussion with the involved operator of general issues related to the complaint (i.e. insufficiently clear terms and conditions).

https://thepogg.com/terms-of-use-for-dispute-resolution-service/

– You are not obliged to obtain independent or legal advice or representation, though you may choose to do so.

If you have any questions about the above, let me know.

Please copy and paste the full communication you received from the operator providing their grounds for non-payment.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Sincerely Greatful to have my complaint escalated this far with a ADR. My utmost respect to you through out this ruling I appreciate whatever findings may arise from this case.

Dear [EDIT],

Breach of clause 8 - Any bonus that is cash or bonus received from the casino, for example via Customer Support, is classified as an instant bonus. We reserve the right to limit any winnings from an instant bonus to 10 times the value of that instant bonus. For example, if you receive a NZD 100 instant bonus, a maximum of NZD1000 is eligible for withdrawal if we choose to enact this clause.

Your withdrawal has been canceled, and your winnings have been capped at NZD 1000.00 and returned to your gaming account.

Kind Regards

Accounts Team

Playzee

https://www.playzee.com

Complaints Team (Playzee)

May 12, 2023, 11:26 AM UTC

Track ResourceDear [EDIT],

We reference your confiscation dispute and have categorised our response below:

Capped Winnings

We have undertaken a review of your account and correspondence in relation to the contested capped winnings and draw your attention to our standard promotional terms and conditions particularly clause 8 https://www.playzee.com/promoterms which stipulates: Any bonus that is cash or bonus received from the casino, for example via Customer Support, is classified as an instant bonus. We reserve the right to limit any winnings from an instant bonus to 10 times the value of that instant bonus. For example, if you receive a NZ$100 instant bonus, a maximum of NZ$1,000 is eligible for withdrawal if we choose to enact this clause.

In your case, the winnings were erroneously capped at $1,000 instead of $100. Our records confirm that you proceeded to withdraw the erroneous credit.

We further draw your attention to clause 9.3 of our terms which provide that “If we mistakenly credit your account with winnings that do not belong to you, whether due to a technical error, error in the pay-tables, or human error or otherwise, the amount will remain property of us and the amount will be deducted from your account. If you have used any such amount to place wagers, we may cancel these wagers and void any winnings. If you have withdrawn funds that do not belong to you prior to us becoming aware of the error, the mistakenly paid amount will (without prejudice to other remedies and actions that may be available at law) constitute a debt owed by you to us and we may take steps to recover such amount. In the event of an incorrect crediting, you are obliged to notify us immediately by email.”

However, we have considered the erroneous credit of $1,000 a gesture of goodwill and resolved that this sum represents the initial capped winnings ($100), as well as a goodwill of gesture in the sum of $900.

We note that the decision taken in this respect remains unchanged and no further funds are owed to yourself.

One thing I'd just like to bring to attention, not only was there own term and clause breached if my bonus was intact an "Instant Bonus" then my wrightful winnings should of been capped at $100 given recieved bonus was $10 not $100 which I did highlight to the casino.

Here is a section quoted in the casinos own terms and condition which explain the T&Cs that would apply to my situation.

1. Explanation of standard promotional terms

1.1

Each individual promotion will come with its own set of specific significant terms and conditions (the “Significant Terms”) in addition to these Standard Promotional Terms and Conditions (“Standard Promo Terms”). You should therefore read these Standard Promo Terms in combination with the applicable Significant Terms for any competition, bonus or promotion (referred to as a “promotion” or “bonus” interchangeably throughout these terms) you wish to enter.

1.2

If for any reason, a promotion does not have Significant Terms, the promotion will default to these Standard Promo Terms only. Where such Significant Terms conflict with these Standard Promo Terms, the Significant Terms will take precedence.

The promotion in which I recieved the bonus most definitely had "Significant Terms" attached with it so was definitely not a "instant Bonus" like they are implying....thus confiscating my balance in excess of $150,000 and then telling me they over compensated by letting me keep $900 as a good will gesture (breaching instant bonus terms) exceeding what should of been capped at $100 should that of been the case 10×10 = $100 vs 10×100 = $1000 which is what they let me keep in error... so they aren't following instant bonus terms either.... they let me keep $900 which was all cash money just like my $150.000 so rhey confiscate my entire balance and let me keep a measley $900 then pick and chose which T&C they can use as some.sort of justification. I have all evidence.. game play records chat logs etc etc sorry for the multiple comments this will be my last one until I here back from you guys it just gets me really upset that a casino is able to blatantly disregard its rules and regulations and lie through there teeth however they see fit. And sadly I know I'm not the only case.

Hi kitty69,

To be clear, you went on to Live Chat, requested a bonus, the operator provided you a $10 No Deposit Bonus which you then won $150k with.

Is that correct?

If so, on what basis do you believe that you were provided bonus specific promotional terms and conditions that would supercede the general promotional terms and conditions?

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi . Thanks for your reply.

I was given a bonus of $10 as part of a ongoing weekly promotion that occurs every week if you wager $200 cash funds they will give you $5 per $100 cash funds wagered.

Here is a copy of the bonus details + T&Cs

TGIF!

Get an early start to the weekend with this sweet bet & get promotion.

All Friday long, play any of your favorite slots and we'll boost your account with a NZ$5 bonus for every NZ$200 cash wagered, up to NZ$10!

Plus, your Zee Club status can greatly increase your max reward:

• Zee Club and Zee Master players can get up to NZ$10.

• Zee Doctor and Zee Professor players can get up to NZ$20.

• Zee Secret Society players can get up to NZ$50.

Only players who are opted in will get to enjoy these great rewards, so make sure you opt in!

Here's how it works:

Specific promotional terms

This offer is valid to existing players only who opt into this promotion.

Offer valid on Fridays only, from 00:01 GMT to 23:59 GMT

Players with a pending withdrawal as of Friday at 23:59 GMT are not eligible for this promotion.

This promotion gives NZ$5 in bonus funds for every NZ$200 wagered on slots, up to:

• NZ$10 for Zee Club and Zee Master players

• NZ$20 for Zee Doctor and Zee Professor players

• NZ$50 for Zee Secret Society players

Only one bonus offer is awarded per account per player. We have the right to suspend this offer if you are in breach of this clause.

The bonus is credited on Saturday by 23:59 GMT.

Bonus must be wagered 35 times the initial bonus amount before any funds can be withdrawn.

Games contribute differently to the wagering requirements. The list of games and their respective weighting towards the wagering requirement can be found here. For this offer the Slots Bonus column of the contribution table shall apply.

Bonus funds must be used within 24 hours of being credited to your account.

Bonus funds can’t be withdrawn until you have met all of these requirements above.

Promotional and General terms and conditions apply in full.

Underage gambling is unlawful. Please play responsibly.

They are trying to tell me by bonus was a

"Instant Bonus" eg one I'd requested from customer service however it was part of a promotion that has its own specific promotional terms .

1. Explanation of standard promotional terms

1.2

If for any reason, a promotion does not have Significant Terms, the promotion will default to these Standard Promo Terms only. Where such Significant Terms conflict with these Standard Promo Terms, the Significant Terms will take precedence.

User iconkitty69May

Hi kitty69,

To quote the relevant sections of the terms you have provided:

"Standard Terms

1.2

If for any reason, a promotion does not have Significant Terms, the promotion will default to these Standard Promo Terms only. "

By term 1.2, if a promotion does not have Significant Terms, it will default to the "Standard Promo Terms only". This does not say that if a promotion has Significant Terms, that the Standard Promo Terms do not apply, only that if it does not have Significant Terms the Standard Promo Terms are the only thing governing the promotion,

In other words, any promotion that does have Significant Terms is governed by both the Significant Terms and the Standard Promotional Terms and only where there is a conflict being the two would the Significant Terms take precedence. In this instance, there is no conflict between the Standard Promotional Term that is being applied and the Significant Terms.

Furthermore, Significant Terms specifically state that:

"Promotional and General terms and conditions apply in full."

including a link to the Standard Promotional Terms.

With regard to the Standard Terms, the definition is as follows:

"8. Instant bonuses

Any bonus that is cash or bonus received from the casino, for example via Customer Support, is classified as an instant bonus. We reserve the right to limit any winnings from an instant bonus to 10 times the value of that instant bonus. For example, if you receive a €100 instant bonus, a maximum of €1,000 is eligible for withdrawal if we choose to enact this clause."

The TGIF bonus is by definition a "bonus received from the casino". It is a bonus. You received it from the casino. The term certainly gives an example of a bonus issued by Customer Support, but does not limit the term to applying to that type of bonus.

That only leaves the fact that the operator has paid you out $1k in error rather than $100. Whether this was an error on the part of the operator or a goodwill gesture given on the basis of the size of the balance that had become subject to voiding, you have benefitted to the tune of ten times what the terms entitle you to. I understand that you are frustrated with this situation, but the only thing that we can do with this aspect of your claim is pursue rigid enforcement of the terms. I doubt that is your preferred option.

I realise this will not be the outcome you were hoping for, but sadly there are no grounds for us to pursue further payment in this situation.

Sorry we could not be of more help.

ThePOGG

Thank you very much for your reply.

I'd be more then happy if you went ahead to pursue with rigid enforcement of the terms.

If I had another option availed I'd take that in a heart beat, However knowing that something can still get done to the effect of bringing that too the casinos attention highlighting the issue of there Terms that would be great also

So I guess the promotion is classed as a instant bonus and there are withdrawal restrictions associated.

It feels like alot of players would get defeated by these unclear Ts & Cs because under the significant terms of the TGIF bonus there is no mention of a cap on winnings only that any bonus would need to be wagered 35 times, the fact that the promotion in itself Is classed as a instant bonus is something that should of been clearly noted in the terms .

Hi kitty69,

I don't think you understood what I was saying.

If you want us to pursue rigid enforcement of the bonus terms, it means you have to return $900. Nothing else. Every term other than the $100 win cap has been appropriately. As such, all we would be doing is instructing you to return $900. There would be no other consequences.

You do not want us to do that.

I'm sorry you feel that the terms are unclear, but given that the general promotional terms are clearly highlighted in the specific promotional terms, I do not feel that it is unreasonable to assume that the average player would understand that the TGIF bonus is a bonus that they received from the casino. The language defining what an Instant Bonus is, is very clear.

Sorry we cannot be of further help,

ThePOGG

They paid me in error yes but they are the ones who authorized that withdrawal. I didn't do intent as I was on the assumption I that I was entitled to those funds and knew none the less. They did not bother too let me know I wasn't entitled to those funds into after the fact I disputed there decision of unfair confiscation of cash funds. That seems alot like predatory behavior and comes across as entrapment I should of disputed my casse prior to withdrawing those funds $1000 they led me to believe I was entitled too ..

Hi kitty69,

To be blunt, you've either benefitted from an error or a goodwill gesture. There is nothing predatory in that.

When you raised the dispute would have made no difference whatsoever. The operator's terms make clear that they are entitled to enforce a win cap on your play based on the bonus you selected.

I understand that you are disappointed to have experienced such a large win and only received a (relatively) small payout. But the terms that you agreed to in accepting this bonus are clear.

Sorry we cannot be of further help.

ThePOGG

Upon looking through there standard terms and conditions again I come across this

5.4

Bonus amounts credited to a player's bonus account are subject to thirty-five (x35) times wagering requirements before they are converted to your Cash Balance and can be withdrawn (unless explicitly stated otherwise in the Significant Terms).

I hear what you are saying about the instant bonus and win cap etc but i can't help but feel that there is something else I am missing to back up my claim. I know they would be trying to come up with anything and everything under the sun to void my cash balance winnings. Why can they only inform me that those $900 funds were granted in error AFTER I had made a withdrawal that had to be

checked and approved by them in the first place.

There whole set of Terms and Conditions both promotional and standard are contradictory, and unclear, thus leaving little loop holes that will In fact allow them to be able too do what they have done in my case. I'm not the only one they have done this too either .

The said bonus wasn't one I had requested it was given to me in my account with no explanation I logged in and the $10 was in my account it lined up with the time and date for the TGIF bonus which lead me to believe that it would not be deemed a instant bonus or at the very least I'd be able to withdraw my winnings after Wagering was complete at stated In there own standard Ts&Cs 5:4

Hi kitty69,

Every bonus you could possibly receive is an Instant Bonus. If it's a bonus and you've received it from the casino, it's an Instant Bonus. The only exceptions would be where the Significant Terms for the bonus in question conflicted with this restriction - i.e. by stating there was no restriction on the maximum amount you are allowed to win, or putting in place a different win cap.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Ohk thank you so much for your time in helping to assist me,

I may reach out to eCOGRA and see if anything comes from that just to see if there's anything they can do and rule out any technicalities .

Hi is there a reason why my complaint is still in progress?

is there anything further possible that I'm able to pursue on this matter.?

Hi kitty69,

As previously instructed, there is nothing we can do to assist you with this matter.

Your complaint will have a pending period of one week after the last post to ensure that all queries are addressed before publication.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Is there any chance this case can be reopened with all of my evidence towards my claim being taken into account before a conclusion is reached. Because the ruling I got i feel is the most obvious conclusion but there is more to this case and evidence i wish to submit that should count for something . I believe I never got the chance to submit anything before a closing decision was made without considering all of my evidence.

Hi kitty69,

Your claim has been appropriately reviewed. We're sorry that you are unhappy with the outcome, but it is crystal clear that the operator are within their rights to apply the maximum win term in this circumstance.

It is not a case of you having been unable to submit evidence, it is simply that the terms and conditions that have been applied were legitimate.

I'm sorry we cannot do anything further to assist you.

ThePOGG

Hi I would like to know If there is any chance this complaint could be reopened and looked onto on the basis of new evidence that I did not include or was unaware of at the time of making my first complaint against Playzee Casino

I have reason to believe my winnings were obtained by my own cash deposit not bonus generated funds and the casino is going above and beyond to conceal the evidence by removing a portion of my game play history and ive got screenshots as proof.

Hi kitty69,

Bonus terms and conditions apply to all wagers from the point that the bonus is added to your account until the point that you have completed the wagering requirement. Whether the wagers in question were placed with deposited funds or bonus funds is non-relevant.

Sorry we cannot be of further help.

ThePOGG

That is understood. However upon reviewing what I had access too as far as my gaming history goes I know for a fact I made several deposits during that time with a strong possibility of not accepting a bonus on the deposit I won on I have requested full deposit and game history from the casino... i find it very "convenient" the casino would delete the one section of game play history that would prove my new findings to be correct

Hi kitty69,

If you believe that the operator in question has not appropriately complied with a Subject Access Request (a request for information about your account), then we would direct you to the appropriate data control governmental agency in your country of residence. They would be the party responsible for managing an issue of this nature.

Supposition that the operator in question may not have fully complied with a SAR request and that this potentially missing information may have bearing on your claim is not sound grounds for us to reopen this matter.

We've reviewed your claim and we are satisfied that the operator was within their rights to enforce the win limit as defined in their terms and conditions. If you obtain evidence to the contrary, please feel free to let us know, but for the present time we do not see sufficient grounds to pursue this matter further.

ThePOGG

I managed to get my game logs from the casino which has all the history in it of my game play as I was making deposits with and without taking the bonuses through out the game play session I don't think there was any bonus tied to my funds when I won the amount that I did.

Hi kitty69,

You have qualify your statement with "think", meaning that you haven't actually been able to determine whether or not a bonus was in play, so you have concluded that it's most likely that there wasn't as that would support your claim.

While we are sympathetic to your frustrations, your claim originally was that you explicitly requested a bonus and that you are contesting which terms could be applied to the bonus that you claimed. We reviewed the terms for you and concluded that the operator was correct.

Only after we rejected your contention about the terms have you decided that you don't think you were playing with a bonus at all.

With the greatest of respect, you are now contradicting your own initial claim. We understand that this win - six figures in nature - would make a significant difference to you if you could demonstrate that it was legitimate. But as things stand, the timeline of events does not suggest that you have valid grounds to contest this balance, but rather that you are working to contest any possible avenue that you think may deliver any possibility of a positive outcome. You don't actually have any evidence or grounds to contest the outcome, you are simply testing to see.

This service is here to intervene in a specific complaint. We have done that for you. We are not here to work through a washing list of different possibilities when your original complaint is not successful. This is not a good use of this service's time or resources.

We are sorry you are unhappy, but there is nothing further we can do to assist you. If you still feel you have valid grounds for your claim, you still retain your rights to pursue this matter via the relevant court system.

ThePOGG

Yes well asides the fact i may of contradicted my initial complaint I admit I should of taken more care into the preparation and putting it together. I've had someone look over my game play history and as a result of that have been told it looks questionable. The casino in question already has a alarming number of complaints the same in nature. For starters in what way is it ethical for the casino to confiscate my 6 figure win but not confiscate loyalty points generated from said win. At the risk of "Contradicting" myself further I would be more then happy to send my game play through to be looked over

Hi kitty69,

An unknown 3rd party's opinion that the play "looks questionable" is not grounds in this instance for us to consider your claims to have merit at this stage.

The reality of this situation is simple. The bonus you claimed had a maximum allowed win associated with it. A very large win occurred, which you were very excited about, but it does not change the terms that you agreed to when accepting this bonus.

When we've pointed this out to you, rather than accepting our ruling, you've looked to find other grounds to contest that you should be paid. You haven't actually found any, you're simply looking for this service to engage further resources reviewing speculation.

Your actions now are not grounds for a valid claim or further action on the part of this service.

We are sorry you are unhappy, but there is nothing further we can do to assist you. If you still feel you have valid grounds for your claim, you still retain your rights to pursue this matter via the relevant court system.

ThePOGG

I didn't even accept no bonus it gets automatically added to your account after wagering your own cash deposits and it is questionable the game play log but the fact its not even up for review is a bit beyond my comprehension. Isn't that what your job is ? To rule on these types of things or am I mistaken ?

Hi kitty69,

Again we're getting an inconsistent story. We've gone from you explicitly requesting a bonus, to your not having received any bonus to now you having received a bonus but not accepted it.

We have ruled on this issue. Clearly. You do not like the ruling. That is your right. And you are free to pursue your claim via the relevant court systems if that is your choice. But the involvement of this service in your claim is now over.

No further posts will be approved on this thread.

ThePOGG

I never requested the bonus ???!

What a joke. If that's what you're claiming I said then you ruled on the WRONG issue, at your convenience

I've come to you with new evidence and it won't get a second look. What kind ofADR is this ?

Hi kitty69,

Our apologies. Please see above where we asked you whether you requested a bonus via Live Chat and you responded:

"I was given a bonus of $10 as part of a ongoing weekly promotion that occurs every week if you wager $200 cash funds they will give you $5 per $100 cash funds wagered."

Given that this was your response to the direct question of whether you contacted Live Chat to receive the bonus, we interpreted the above to mean that you had. The ruling you've received has not been based on this, but our position stands nonetheless.

At the beginning of your claim, as evidenced in the quote above, there was absolutely no ambiguity regarding whether or not you had received a bonus. Not only had you received a bonus, but you knew the specific bonus you had received and why you had received it.

The reality is that there was no question of whether or not you received a bonus until after you received a ruling that you were unhappy about.

You are not "com[ing] to [us] with new evidence". Your choice of language makes that absolutely clear. The best you have been able to say is that you "think" you may not have received a bonus or that your gameplay history "looks questionable". This isn't evidence. This is you asking us to engage an entire review of your gameplay history, based on your hope that you can find some other justification to legitimize your win.

While we understand why you would like every possible aspect of your interaction with the operator picked apart, the purpose of this service is not to audit operators interactions with any player that contact us. If we thought that there was any plausible chance of you not having played with a bonus, we would review your gameplay history, despite this being a time-consuming exercise. But the reality is that the timeline of events, the language you have used in raising this new issue, our experience and knowledge of how the bonus management system of this licensee functions (due to hundreds of cases against them reviewed) and the psychology of the situation makes clear that the outcome of any review is effectively certain.

We are sorry you are unhappy with the outcome of your claim but there is nothing further we can do to assist you. You are free to pursue your legal rights via appropriate channels, but our involvement in this matter has now concluded.

No further posts will be approved. Any further communication regarding this matter will not receive a response.

ThePOGG

Ok i know i got my case off to the wrong start by not having all my facts together mistake number 1.

Altho my game play logs may not be deemed

"new evedence " however when i first lodged this complaint I was not In receipt of my official game play log from the casino.. should I have been i would of totally went about this another way.

factual evidence - proof in official game logs.

A) yes I played with a bonus * which was wagered and released

B) through out the rest of my game play they have marked every few valid bets down as

* loyalty* ..cash.. then *loyalty* all the way leading up to my balance reaching6 figures. I'm assuming loyalty would be classed as bonus funds, correct ?

The only loyalty would have to be from the loyalty points I accumulated while playing to even reach this balance in the first place as mentioned previously my funds were confiscated, why didn't my loyalty points Get confiscated along with the money ?!,!,?

With all due respect despite being a time consuming exercise this is something that absolutely needs attention. If not from you guys, someone, where to from here ecogra won't and cant get involved as the first ruling from you took precedence over any involvement. .

Hi kitty69,

So you have played with a bonus.

Whether the bonus wagering had been concluded or not, the maximum you would ever be allowed to withdraw from a balance associated with this bonus is 10xbonus. In this case you were allowed 100xbonus, as a good will gesture.

If you have played on after completing the wagering requirements, the maximum allowed win cap still applies.

ThePOGG

Yes I initiated a withdrawal in between of $2000 then played on with money I had left when I won the 6figures. It's all evident in my game play logs.

even if I miss the mark on what I'm truly trying to say here the casino led me to believe I was entitled to the winnings for days.. giving them to come up with a defence to avoid paying me out this is definitely A huge miscarriage of justice .

Hi kitty69,

The money you played on with was void. It was winnings from the promotion that exceeded the win cap. As such, any play with this balance is also void.

There has been no "miscarriage of justice" here. You are unhappy that the promotion you claimed had a maximum win term which meant you were not entitled to all of the winnings derived from your play. We understand that. But your frustration does not change the facts of the situation or entitle you to any further payout.

ThePOGG

It entitles me to have my records checked because that's the least that could be done here.

Refusing the opportunity to have that done looks really biased in my opinion. I'm presenting the facts and proof and it won't be reconsidered or looked at ??

What is it that you guys have to lose?

Not too mention the "Glowing" review and final remarks about the casino on your websit. That pretty much sums it all up. So disappointing

Hi kitty69,

I'm sorry you are unhappy, but you are entitled to nothing further from us.

As we originally correctly concluded, and by your own admission, these funds were connected to your play with a bonus. There is nothing further for us to review here. You are welcome to your opinion. The correct outcome has been reached and further investment of resources in this matter is non-productive.

You are free to pursue this matter as you see fit, but this service's involvement in your case is now over.

ThePOGG