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Redstar – Room closed my access to the account

Ruling

Unresolved - RedStar casino have informed us that the Microgaming Poker Network has identified this player as using a bot. MPN have refused to provide supporting evidence.

Read our RedStar Casino Review.

Player's Complaint

10,12,2016 Room closed my access to the account. Room write me “wrong login and password”. Button “retrieve password” wasn’t work. 20.12.2016 I sent letter asking how can I get new password. I got two answers.

1) From support. Your account was blocked by our security department.

2) From Security. Your account was blocked for using automatic program (bot). Funds confiscated.

18.05.2017

1) I asked what does it mean automatic program (bot).

2) What ways I have to appeal on my account.

18.05.2017

I got answer that my account was blocked by MPN security, and they have “no doubts on this incident”. “You could write directly to MPN and you will get the same answer”.

19.05.2017

I write letter to MPN that:

1) what does it mean automatic program (bot)

2) why they think I have one.

3) How this mistake block could be canceled.

4) I asked to test me, my comp allow me to make video of my game or test my poker skill.

19.05.2017

Hi

Unfortunately, Microgaming is a B2B software supplier. Operators using our software are required to respond and address all support related queries.

Sorry

Microgaming

20.05.2017

I write to security[@]redstarpoker.com.

How could I write directly to MPN or security department of MPN. Still get no answer.

I am real person. My name is [EDIT]. I am live in Kiev. I don’t use any bots. After poker I discuss my play with my friend and use poker materials from the different sources. I ready to any test that I am real person and play by myself. I can prove it by videos, comments, ID etc.

Thank you.

Read the casino review

6 Responses

ThePOGG
May 26, 2017

Hi mealpoker - welcome to ThePOGG.com!

Before we go any further I need to cover a couple of issues for you and other readers:

1) By 'bot' the operator means automated software program that plays for you or provides other advice or assistance and provide you with an unfair advantage over the other players at the table who do not use such software.

2) Videos of your play now would not prove anything other than you didn't use a bot when you were playing. It does not prove you did not use a bot historically,

3) Are there any funds contested here? If not RedStar are within their rights to refuse you access to their service for any reason and we would have no grounds to challenge their decision.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

meallpoker
Jun 01, 2017

1) I want know what they exactly mean in my situation. If they think that machine play ("press buttons") instead of me, give me advice or maybe send my cards, HH or something else? It is very hard to prove negative of suspects that I dont know. I asked operator to more specific charge. To start parley.
2) I think that onus of proof is on the accuser, but I am open to any test and questions if they need.
Also I find that this is established pattern of behavior for operator with good reputation within such settings. e.g. Pokerstars.
3) Yes, I was blocked with about 200 USD.

ThePOGG
Jun 01, 2017

Hi mealpoker,

1) I'm afraid that the operator are not going to tell you how they've detected your prohibited activity as this would only serve to educate you as to how to avoid detection in future.

2) There's no question that RedStar have to demonstrate to us reasonably grounds to conclude that you've used a prohibited robotic assistance, but the point is that a video of you playing without a bot would not prove anything.

3) That's fine - I'll contact the operator regarding your issue.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

meallpoker
Jun 19, 2017

hi thePOGG,
1. I understand, this position. Nevertheless, I would like such information to be verified by an independent party, and also by a party that represents interests of the defense. As in a civilized world, when there is a prosecutor, a court and a lawyer. That's why I asked for help to you.
2. It depends on what I'm accused of. As the program cannot bypass the Turing test, so a person cannot be identical to the program. Consequently, the operator's refuse to test my game with video-fixing testifies to my favor.
3. Is there any news from the operator?
Thanks,
Mealpoker.

ThePOGG
Jun 21, 2017

Hi mealpoker,

2. No it doesn't. As optimum play at poker varies by depending on the opponent being played, there is no "control group" to compare any video taken. The opponents would have to also consent to repeat the same play and play in exactly the same fashion, standards that obviously cannot be reproduced.

3. I'm still talking to the operator and will revert to you when appropriate.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

ThePOGG
Jun 30, 2017

Hi mealpoker,

I've concluded my discussion with RedStar and unfortunately we're at an impasse. Given that your play was in their poker room, RedStar don't actually have final say over player management. This is dealt with by Microgaming Poker Network (MPN). MPN have stated that they won't discuss this issue with anyone other than RedStar's regulator. RedStar are regulated by CyberLuck, a group who have historically and in our experience been entirely non-responsive to player complaints.

From what we have managed to get from RedStar relating to the factors that led to this decision it would be likely that if they could corroborate their claims that we would rule in favour of the operator. As no supporting evidence has been provided however we cannot verify their claims. As such we have two parties with diametrically opposed claims and no sound ground upon which to make a ruling. This case has to be marked as 'Unresolved'.

Sorry we can't be of more help, but if you are genuine in your claim that you have not used a bot I would suggest you may want to try submitting a complaint to CyberLuck. It's unlikely they'll respond but you never know.

ThePOGG

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