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Tony Bet – Gamstop

Ruling

Found for the Casino - While we understand the player's frustrations, TonyBet's GamStop participation did not begin until after their play.

Player's Complaint

My name is [EDIT], I am a member of Tonybet. Last week, I logged in and deposited for the first time in years(s?) around £600. I am a problem gambler and I have been, for months, signed up to Gamstop.

After depositing £600 in one morning, I received an email informing me that Tonybet were about to become a gamstop participant (one business day later) and wondered if, as a new member, they would be sympathetic to my case.

If they’d told me they were to be a member that morning, just 3 days before their membership started,I would not have deposited, as I know any withdrawal attempt would have been blocked by the time it had been processed.

These were my first deposits with Tonybet in a long time (years I believe).

I accept I shouldn’t have made them, but being a problem gambler and having signed up to gamstop, I am taking action to try and stop my addiction and believe the casino had created a situation where I was allowed to deposit as much as I like, £100’s of pounds, but it was impossible for me to win (because of their pending membership of Gamstop). Which I believe is fundamentally unfair.

I spoke to the casino who sent me jargon text back explaining self exclusion. They refused to answer why I’d been sent the email that afternoon rather than earlier, if it was an email to all players or just me, or basically give me any useful information related to my account.

ThePogg is an amazing service and I thank you for taking the time to read this.

Dancul30

Thank you

Read the casino review

5 Responses

ThePOGG
Oct 24, 2018

Hi dancul30skye - welcome back!

Unfortunately there isn't anything we can do for you in this instance. Gamstop is a voluntary scheme at the present time. Where operators engage with it they are doing something positive. But there is a cut of in this type of situation. Given that they had not yet made public their Gamstop agreement at the time of your play - and obviously had not yet actioned exiting players registered with Gamstop, Tony Bet could not legitimately use your registration with Gamstop as grounds for non-payment. Likewise, the operator cannot be expected to know about your exclusion before they join the scheme. I'm sorry to hear about your frustration, but the Gamstop agreement would only be relevant AFTER they announced it.

I would also take this opportunity to draw your attention to the fact that on every one of the complaints you've submitted to this service we've replaced the gambling advertisements with banners for our Responsible Gambling tool BetBlocker and I have directed you to this tool in previous responses. If you had this tool installed you would not be able to access Tony Bet nor ~5.5k other gambling websites. (iPhone app will be out shortly).

Sorry we cannot be of more help!

ThePOGG

dancul30skye
Oct 24, 2018

Hi ThePogg.

Ok no problem. I’ll contact gamstop and see what they say. It seems to me that Tonybet listening to my complaint and responding to me properly would be in the spirit of a company that’s joined Gamstop but they didn’t seem interested I doing so.

I only use an iPhone, so as soon as the service is available on iPhone I will definitely sign up, thank you.

Dancul30

ThePOGG
Oct 26, 2018

Hi dancul30skye,

Unfortunately I cannot agree with you here. There are cut off points for this type of situation for a reason. What you are effectively asking for is that for an undetermined period of time before Tony Bet introduced Gamstop, that Tony Bet as a gesture of good will decide that any player that is later identified to be registered with Gamstop and has been allowed to play is paid wins where they win or refunded losses. Effectively you're asking that the operator engage a policy where they can only lose over a potentially large number of accounts to meet with what you determine to be the 'spirit' of Gamstop participation. The only way to balance out such a policy would be to apply it evenly across both winners and losers. No winning player is going to accept a explanation of 'we weren't a member of Gamstop at the time of your play, but we joined shortly after and have identified that you're registered with them. As such we're retroactively applying our Gamstop membership to your play and not paying your win.' That is an unsustainable policy for any business both in monetary terms and reputationally.

I understand that you are struggling to control your affliction, but in this case it's impossible to support you on the grounds of subsequent Gamstop membership.

ThePOGG

dancul30skye
Oct 26, 2018

Hi ThePogg

Sorry - I meant just responding to me properly, for example replying in the way you just have, talking about the situation and not just sending paragraphs of pre written literature. Rather than Tonybet necessarily agreeing with my view - although that would be nice!

And I accept that, by your explanation, if I had won then the casino would not have been able to stop me withdrawing any winnings. In practise, I’ve had a bad experience in which winnings were withheld from me due to suspect self exclusion reasoning (in which ThePogg found in favour with me). It’s probably that experience that lead me to believe this casino might exploit this grey area to not pay out potential winnings.

That is where my thinking came in - I believed that no payouts would be issued if a player won, which therefore would mean deposits were unfair.

If the practice is to pay the player in this situation then I agree deposits made are fair.

I do think that Tonybet could have alerted me sooner to their pending membership, but I can’t change that and maybe I’m future as more companies join gamstop timings guidelines will be issued.

Thanks for responding etc.

Dancul30

ThePOGG
Oct 26, 2018

Hi dancul30skye,

I do understand what you are saying and there are operators out there that will try to skirt the rules. There is no question about that. But there has to be something provably wrong before we'd take action. If you came to us saying that you won prior to the announcement that Tony Bet were joining Gamstop and they were now refusing to pay the win that occurred BEFORE they joined, we'd be going to the operator to argue your case. We cannot do both and the example i just gave is a far stronger case as there is clearly defined wrongdoing than this issue that is based on the presumption that the operator would have done something wrong.

And yes, I agree, many operators simply are not good at explaining their actions. A lot of complaints would never be submitted here if customer support staff were better trained and operators took a little more time to detail what was happening and why.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

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