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Two Up – declining VIP $45,000 win by deceitfully applying a max cash out

Ruling

Found for the Player - Two Up Casino has added a bonus this player explicitly requested not to receive then enforced terms the player could not have been aware of.

Read our Two Up Casino Review.

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Player's Complaint

I am seeking your assistance with the unfair declining of a payout by Two Up Casino to one of their VIPs.

I would be incredibly grateful for your help and truly appreciate you getting involved in the unfortunate instance where casinos have behaved in unscrupulous manners.

I believe Two Up has manipulated my account and options in an attempt to avoid paying out my winnings. My complaint however is largely based on their most recent unscrupulous act of declining $45,000 payout by claiming I was playing with a free chip that had a max cash out when there is absolutely no evidence to support this.

I believe they either a) deceived me by adding a free chip to my account against my strict instructions never to do so and manipulating me into thinking I was playing with my weekly cashback or b) making false allegations that I was playing with a free chip after the fact so they can enforce the maximum cash out rule and limit my payout to $2,500. There is absolutely no evidence to support any of the claims they’re making, only that they’re going to extreme lengths to minimise any winnings they payouts that they’re being manipulative, deceitful, making claims which are outright lies and even contradicting their own terms

Read the casino review

9 Responses

ThePOGG
Jan 05, 2019

Hi missrhirhi - welcome to ThePOGG.com!

Before we go any further - do you have any record of the communication where you requested not to be given any No Deposit Bonuses?

Thanks,

ThePOGG

missrhirhi
Jan 15, 2019

Hi team, I emailed you all the supporting documents including proof that there is a warning on my account never to add free chips unless I specifically request them. As well as 20+ other supporting documents to back my claims against Two Up.

Can you please confirm you received these?
They were sent the same date as Iodged the complaint and the above specific proof you’re querying I also sent in a seperate third email on 5 Jan when requested.

Thanks again. :)

missrhirhi
Jan 18, 2019

Hi team,

This complaint has been ongoing with Two Up since the end of December. It’s a great deal of money and the casino is dragging this out now for a very unreasonable amount of time.

They have made several commitments to me in writing and failed to meet every single one of them which is impacting me a great deal and not just financially.

Unfortunately they confirmed in writing they would issue me with a severance of $9,873 US. I advised them I would still be going to mediation. They then however stated this was a “typo” and it was AUD which is $4,000 lower. All my deposits appear on my statement as US so this seemed accurate. I made decisions based on their word and I am now out of pocket not only the $4,000 but they haven’t even issued me with the full severance! They’ve done partial payments and it’s been 9 business days since the last and I am out of pocket thousands.

It would mean a great deal to me if we can apply some pressure and get this complaint resolved in a timely manner as this is just unacceptable.

I also played down about 70k in wins in the month prior to this dispute. I begged Two Up to increase my withdrawal limit which I was eligible to do as a VIP which they declined every time. I also begged them to process payouts quicker than the 7 days but even when fast tracked my win still sat there untouched for five days at which point I played it down. Two Up declined these requests which I begged of them with the full knowledge that I have a brain tumour which has given me an impulse control disorder and gambling addiction. This I the reason I made the requests. There is a mammoth breech of responsible gaming here and I’d like this to be reviewed as well please. Two Up claim to have had no knowledge of my brain tumour however I can provide you with six separate emails where I am begging them to help me not play down my winnings which reference my tumour/impulse control disorder/gambling addiction.

Two Up manipulated and took advantage of my situation to maximise the chances of me playing down winnings, then on what they knew to be my last play at the casino to use my weekly VIP cashback they have manipayledt the situation again and claimed to have applied a free chip by mistake instead which has a max cash out and therefore cancelled my $45,000 payout.

I desperate need your help here. Every single statement I have made I have evidence to support in screen shots/emails/documents etc.

Thanks in advance.

ThePOGG
Jan 20, 2019

Hi missrhirhi,

Apologies for the delays here. You've sent through a lot of information and I've just sat down and gone through this.

I can confirm that you're screenshots would seem to demonstrate that you have repeatedly informed the operator of your medical condition and 'impulse control' issues.

I can also confirm that a casino rep appears to validate that you do have a note on the account stating that No Deposit Bonuses should not be added without a request.

I'm raising this issue with this issue with the operator now. You should however understand that this is an operator that are listed negatively here and who are operating in a market (Australia) that is at best a (dark) grey market. Our leverage in this situation is limited.

I'll revert when we have further information.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

missrhirhi
Jan 21, 2019

Hi Team,

Thank you. I know there is a great deal of information and supporting documents which I have sent, so I appreciate your time. The key points are:

1) Due to my dislike of max cash out limitations, there is a warning on my account to never add free chips without my permission and only if I request one (I have provided evidence of this)

2) I was eligible for my weekly VIP cashback which has no max cash out. I estimated it would be $400-$500 and when I logged in $500 was on my account. I played in good faith and ended up winning $45,000

3) Two Up then claimed it was a free chip not the weekly cashback that had been applied to my account and therefore a 5 X max cash out applied. This is Two Up’s attempt to manipulate me out of my win.

4) I did not request a free chip, so this goes against my clear arrangement with the Casino. Two Up claim they emailed me to advise they added a free chip to my account. I have provided copies of the two emails they sent me and neither reference a free chip. On the contrary they recommend I take a break from gambling. I have asked Two Up for copies of this email but they refuse to provide it - this is because it does not exist. They are lying to try to back their claim to enable them to cheat me out of my $45,000 payout

5) Two Up claim it clearly states in both the cashier and promotions section at the casino that it was a ftee chip with a max cash out. On the contrary it confirms the bonus amount is $0.00 and the full balance of $45,223.58 is withdrawable. I have provided screen shots of the promotions section, the cashier section, of h the main screen and the withdrawal section of the casino that all clearly show no evidence of this being a free chip and that no max cash out applies.

6) Two Up manipulated my unfortunate situation knowing I have a brain tumour which has given me a gambling addiction and impulse control disorder and repeatedly refused to increase my weekly withdrawal from $2,000 even though this is standard for VIPs as per their terms and conditions or process payouts any quicker than 7 days. This cost me to gamble down $70,000 in winnings in a month and after informing the casino I would never be playing with them again due to their predatory behaviour, they knew when I logged in one last time to play my weekly VIP cashback after that I would never be returning. After winning $45,000 and knowing they had lost my business Two Up decided to falsify claims and manipulate the situation to try to apply a maximum cash out to avoid paying $45,000 to a customer they had just lost.

7) I have sent no less than 20+ supporting documents to support every statement I have made and prove this is simply an unconscionable and quite appalling attempt by Two Up to manipulate a brain tumour patient they have already done so incredibly wrong by out of a big win with nothing but lies and not a single supporting document to back their claim.

Two Up were under strict instructions never to add a free chip without my permission. It was my weekly cashback I was playing with. There is not a single thing to indicate otherwise. No emails from Two Up, not one single section of the casino shows it’s a chip or any max cash out applies, Two Up are simply trying to state it was so they can cap a massive $45,000 payout to a measly $2,500.

I am appalled.

missrhirhi
Feb 03, 2019

Hi team,

I hope you’re well and your 2019 is off to a good start.

I’m just touching base to see if Two Up bothered responding to you at all?

Thanks in advance.

missrhirhi
Feb 21, 2019

Hi guys,

This complaint has been open for two months.
Have you received any response at all from the casino?
This is just another classic example of their pathetic customer treatment and customer service.

If you’re getting nowhere please can you post this on your complaints section for everyone to see the complaint against the casino and their lack of effort to resolve any customer issues to warn players?

ThePOGG
Mar 01, 2019

Hi missrhirhi,

I've now concluded our conversation with the operator about this issue.

You were in fact awarded a No Deposit Bonus reward, despite instruction from yourself not to add this type of bonus to your account. That much supports your claim.

However, a 8:29am server time, your Live Chat records show that you contacted support and were informed that this was a NDB. Up to this point you could reasonably assert that you were playing under the understanding that this was your VIP Cashback (which at that point had not yet been credited). Having been informed that this was a NDB you would be subject to NDB terms from that point on.

At that time your balance was ~$10k, which it is reasonable to assert you are entitled to. Winnings after this point you would not be entitled to.

Unfortunately the operator has opted to return your deposits and will not make any payment on this win. As such TwoUp Casino and their associated properties will be moved to our Blacklist.

Sorry we could not be of further help!

ThePOGG

missrhirhi
Mar 17, 2019

Hi guys,

I only just saw this, unsure how I missed it.

Yes, they did advise me that it was a no claim bonus partway through however they also said they’d look into it because it should not have been added against my wishes so I assumed they’d apply the weekly cashback terms which is what it should have been in the first place.

Incredibly dodgy that they add a free chip for the exact same amount as my weekly VIP cashback ignoring clear instructions not to ever add free chips to my account.

This casino is by far the worst casino I have ever played at. A warning for all... they have incredibly long payout timeframes, tiny weekly limits and incredibly predatory terms.

Thanks for trying to help, guys. PS The refunds they claim to have provided? Some I received yes, however after a month of fighting no more came through. They couldn’t even do that right.

A warning to all - do not play at Two Up.

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missrhirhi consented for ThePOGG to act on their behalf and share the personal information that they provide to ThePOGG with the following agencies for the purposes of resolving their complaint:

  • Two-up Casino

December 29, 2018