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Winnings.com – Confiscated Winnings

Ruling

Found for the Casino - This player applied a highly unusual betting strategy matched by a large number of other accounts and could provide no explanation for the exact match activity that would not fall in under the definition of fraud or collusion.

The complaints involved in this investigation can be found below, but it should be noted that a large number of other accounts were also involved:

Read our Winnings.com Casino Review.

Player's Complaint

Winnings.com have confiscated a win stating that I breached their terms in regards to maximum line bet of £0.50.

I genuinely believe they have added this term after I have participated in this offer, and despite best attempts to clarify this via Live Chat they are unable to give an exact date as to when they changed their terms.

Read the casino review

14 Responses

ThePOGG
Nov 10, 2017

Hi allinwlk - welcome to ThePOGG.com!

I'll contact the operator and see what we can find out for you.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

ThePOGG
Nov 15, 2017

Hi allinwlk,

I've had time to discuss this issue in full with the operator.

As things currently stand, your non-payment has nothing to do with the change in terms though admittedly your play would be in violation of the new term.

The issue relates to a very large number of accounts signing up across this network of operators in a short space of time that all share very similar activity and behaviour profiles and most notably all chose to employ the same highly abnormal betting strategy.

The style of play that you've chosen is unusual enough that to have two players select it at the same time would be remarkable. Where there are dozens of accounts choosing to play this strategy it's very clear that this isn't coincidence and something is connecting the activity on these accounts.

As such I need you to explain to me why you've chosen the same abnormal betting pattern as so many other accounts?

Thanks,

ThePOGG

allinwlk
Nov 18, 2017

Hi Pogg,

I can't speak for the other accounts, I only play my own account. A friend told me he won big doing something similar recently so I thought I would give it a try. I figured playing one line for £5 is like a £50 spin if I hit, which is what happened!

ThePOGG
Nov 18, 2017

Hi allinwlk,

For the similarities we're seeing I'm afraid that explanation would not cover it. Stripping back to a single line and playing exactly the maximum allowed be on that single line - which is far higher than the vast majority of average players would play on a spin making you a high roller - is a highly unusual strategy. That so many accounts have chosen to select this exact strategy in such a short space of time is not adequately explained by 'a [singular] friend told me'.

If you don't have a more plausible explanation for the similarities in your account activity than this I'm afraid that the balance of probabilities would indicate that this is either fraud (one person operating accounts under names other than their own) or collusion (multiple account holders specifically working together to apply strategies that they know to be detrimental to the operator). The 'friend' explanation already falls into dangerous territory in terms of collusion.

ThePOGG

allinwlk
Nov 18, 2017

I really don't see what is so unusual about playing a £5 spin on a slot when the maximum bet during bonus terms and conditions is £5? I don't think a £5 bet in any way constitutes a "high roller".

I'm really not comfortable with you insinuating fraud or collusion. I genuinely played a slot, in my own name, with my own money and I chose to play one line rather than ten. If I had lost I suspect I wouldn't be hearing anything about it (and in fact I have lost large amounts of money to other casinos playing this way).

Surely if there were a group of people working together there would be other ways to link them? IP addresses or something?

I cannot be linked to anybody else because I am only me...

Regards,

[EDIT]

ThePOGG
Nov 18, 2017

Hi allinwlk,

A £5/spin bet size is higher than 90% of players would choose on average. Coincidentally it's also the bet size that would be chosen by a player looking to apply strategies intended to gain a mathematical advantage via use of a bonus and consequently is a bet size that is frequently chosen by those who register multiple accounts under names other than their own to claim bonuses. But beyond that, playing a single line on a multi-line slots game AND choosing to ramp that single line bet up to the maximum allowed bet at this size is exceptionally unusual. If this was just you, or even just you an your friend, there may be an argument to be had here. But it's not. It's dozens of accounts.

Any objective and independent observer would conclude that the similarities between your activity and that of the other account signed up in a very short time around that which your account was registered are not coincidental - i.e. you very clearly either know the other account holders, aren't who you are saying you are, or there is a singular strategy source that a large number of account holders have take advice from.

If you cannot provide a legitimate explanation for your activities we will take no further part in the representation of your complaint.

Further posts that fail to provide the requested explanation will not receive approval.

ThePOGG

allinwlk
Nov 19, 2017

Hi Pogg,

What do you mean by a legitimate explanation? It seems like you've already made up your mind despite me saying otherwise?

Is there any proof I have been involved with other accounts? Has my name, PC, IP, or any other identifiable information been linked with any other accounts? It seems like I am essentially being unfairly treated because of the actions of others who you say are working together, but I'm afraid that doesn't include me.

I really don't know what else to say, I have explained why I bet that way, I believe it gives me the best chance of winning. I've lost a lot of money doing so with this casino group and others. When I do get a win it would be nice to think it would be honoured. I believe the odds are very much in the casino's favour irrespective of how I bet?

Regards,

[EDIT]

allinwlk
Nov 19, 2017

If a casino isn't comfortable with me playing a certain way it should be in their T&Cs, to my knowledge it wasn't at the time that I did the offer. They have since changed that. Surely they have to honour wins prior to that change? If not then surely they must refund my losses prior to this win, if they had no intention of paying a win?

allinwlk
Nov 19, 2017

I've just done the same thing (one line, £5 bet) at another casino and won £2000. Guess what? They processed my withdrawal immediately.

ThePOGG
Nov 19, 2017

Hi allinwlk,

There is no problem with the strategy you chose to play. There is a problem when dozens of accounts choose to play a highly abnormal strategy all in close succession alongside all these accounts targeting the same games. That strongly indicates that these accounts are either being controlled by a single individual or that the account holders are operating in concert.

There is NO possibility that these similarities occurred by chance. That is beyond the reasonable bounds of probability. I'm am providing you a final chance to explain what your relationship is with these other accounts and if there really is no direct relationship, how so many other people could have ended up choosing the same strategy as you. If you cannot do that then our involvement in your complaint is over.

ThePOGG

allinwlk
Nov 19, 2017

Well I'm sorry but I cannot do that because I do not know of these other accounts you keep referring to.

I know the name of the person I have discussed this method with (the one who told me he had a big win trying it), who is a friend, but I don't think he plays at this casino group so I can't imagine that helps either.

I have absolutely no control over the actions of others, how on earth am I meant to explained why someone else has bet in the same way as me?

The only plausible explanation seems to be that there are a group of people who have started betting in this way (perhaps it has become popular or is discussed somewhere online?!), that's the only way I can explain it. All I can say is that I have no relationship with them and seem to be on the receiving end of a bad co-incidence, however hard you find that to believe.

The bottom line from my perspective is I genuinely feel I have done nothing wrong and yet I am having my winnings withheld.

ThePOGG
Nov 19, 2017

Hi allinwlk,

If you are saying that you and your friend have taken strategy information from a published resource you need to provide that resource for review. Short of that there is no plausible reason for the similarities between your account's activities and that of so many other accounts that does not involve a material breach of terms if not law.

ThePOGG

allinwlk
Nov 19, 2017

I’ve spoken to my friend tonight, he said he heard about it from a website called [EDIT]. It looks like some sort of forum and I can’t see any details without joining, but that may explain why people are using this method at casinos?

I’ll repeat for the fifth time that I have no connection to any other accounts that you claim are doing this. Is the casino able to provide some proof of this? As far I’m concerned they could be making it up not to pay me.

ThePOGG
Nov 20, 2017

Hi allinwlk,

I've looked at the evidence and I'm absolutely convinced. Whether you are or not is inconsequential to this process.

We will need to be able to access [EDIT] to verify whether information regarding this strategy was posted. You and your friend need to arrange for that.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

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