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YouWager – amigotech

Ruling

Found for the Casino - I will start off by saying that I am very reluctant to mark this issue in facour of the operator, but the evidence provided to date is not enough to verify the player's suspicions and as we cannot verify the claims we have to be consistent in our approach to the treatment of the operator.

The player claims to have played a large amount of spins on a single slots game and has never received the top few 5 symbol paying combinations. This sounds suspiciously similar to previous issues we've identified with Amigotech Video Poker, where the player could not receive any hand of 3 of a Kind or Better (i.e. suppression of certain payouts to increase the casinos edge). With card games it's relatively straight forward to prove that this is happening as the card occurrences conform to known probabilities allowing us to compare what should happen with what has happened. Slots games do not conform to such known models and as such proving that specific combinations are occurring less that they should becomes very difficult.

In our opinion, based on the results the player experienced and the previous instances with Amigotech have been caught running cheating games, it is likely that that this player has been playing a game where they could not ever hit the advertised top paying combinations, but that is opinion only and not something we can prove.

Read our YouWager Casino Review.

Player's Complaint

I have played over 240 thousand spins over the course of 3 years at youwager.eu. I just found out that they use amigotech for their fruitastic slot machine in their mobile casino. In all of those spins I have never hit any of the top 4 symbols (5 of a kind). I am in the middle of paying the wizard at wizard of odds and two others to analyze a thousand or so spins . Do I have any recourse with this? I always thought something was wrong but I heard you on gambling with an edge and went to your site trying to find out who the software provider was and was shocked when I saw it was the same one that cheated in video poker.

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5 Responses

ThePOGG
Jun 23, 2016

Hi morganstanley - welcome to ThePOGG.com!

I have zero faith in the integrity of Amigotechs software and as such I find your account far more worrying than I would against a software that didn't have the history that Amigotechs does.

The problem with establishing cheating in slots games is the undefined nature of the game. Where a game uses a representation of a physical device all major regulator authorities stipulate that the representation must conform to the probabilities of the real device. So a Video Poker game should have the same chance of drawing an Ace that a real deck would or a Roulette wheel must provide a 1 in 37/38 chance of any number occurring as would be the case offline.

Slots machines are a different kettle of fish. They don't represent a real device. The only thing that even vaguely ties them down to conforming to any set range is if the operator publish the House Edge/Return to Player figures for the game. Essentially I could set up a slots game where every winning combination pay 1 except the very top payout which pays $2 million then set that top payout to a probability of 1 in 10000000000000000. This would essentially mean that the top payout will never occur, but as I haven't tied myself into any definable restrictions wouldn't technically constitute cheating. YouWager and Amigotechs don't publish any RTP information for your slots games.

Nevertheless, I am VERY interested to see what the WizardOfOdds comes back with and if something conclusive can be found I'd be happy to take this issue back to Amigotechs and see what I can do.

Were all the spins on the Fruitastic slots game?

Thanks,

ThePOGG

ThePOGG
Jun 27, 2016

Hi morgonstanley,

I've exchanged an email with the Wizard of Odds who has stated that they're away travelling for the next week. As such I wouldn't expect movement on this issue for a while.

As to testing a Video Poker game - I couldn't give you a definite sample size that would be required to establish a problem as the sample size required depends on the nature of the issue. Where there was only a small deviation from the expected results it could take millions of rounds of optimal strategy play to establish a problem. The bigger the deviation the smaller the required sample size.

I would strongly discourage you from going looking for this type of issue - it can end up costing you a lot of time and money with no guarantee of success.

As to whether or not you should continue using YouWager as your sportsbook, I don't trust any operator that uses Amigotechs software. I don't believe that the issues that have been confirmed with this software provider can be reasonably viewed as accidental and as such I would seriously question the integrity of any operator that software. It's far more difficult to cheat a player who's betting sports - you get offered specific odds and you expect to be paid out at those odds based on the results of an event that the operator cannot control. However, I'd still worry about getting payments in your position given the other issues with this group. Play or don't play at least now you have a better understanding of the potential risks of playing with this operator.

ThePOGG

ThePOGG
Jul 06, 2016

Hi morganstanley,

I've spoken to the Wizard of Odds - he is aware of you as an individual on the Wizard of Vegas forum and acknowledges that he's had numerous discussions with you, but as far as he's aware he's not agreed to undertake any game analysis with respect to this particular issue. Without that there really is nowhere for this complaint to go. Could I ask you to go back to him and confirm the situation?

Thanks,

ThePOGG

ThePOGG
Aug 01, 2016

Hi morganstanley,

Apologies for the slow response - I hadn't spotted your last email.

The problem you have here is that even if you get a map of the reels as they currently are, the operator can simply say that the game is configurable and that different settings will naturally result in different reel map and that they were using a different setting at the time you played.

All in all, while I'd agree that the results you describe sound very suspect and combined with a software platform that has has repeated issue specifically related to higher paying combinations not being received by players, the nature of the game you've chose does not allow for proof that the combinations cannot be achieved without examination of the code for the game. I'm afraid that I don't have the required credentials to undertake that task. I know that Elliot Jacobson has done something similar to this before with relation to this software, but I couldn't comment on whether he'd be willing to fulfil that role again.

Without actual proof that the combinations simply do not occur, which owuld then make this a cheating game as it advertises payouts that cannot occur, there's no grounds for me to press for return of any losses in this instance.

ThePOGG

ThePOGG
Aug 01, 2016

Hi morganstanley,

Unless you can prove that the top payouts don't occur you haven't proved that they're cheating. I appreciate it's very difficult to do that. That's one of the reasons it take so much time and work to prove that an operator's cheating. I agree that the results are suspicious - if your reports are accurate - but they're not conclusive.

Regarding the Blackjack issue (not being allowed to Double Down), my first comment is why are you continuing to play with an operator that you have significant concerns about? STOP PLAYING! You've seen more thane enough evidence to call the Amigotechs platform into question and you have your own experience that reinforces your trust issues. Continuing to wager on their casino games is accepting that there's a potential risk that you're not receiving a fair game.

Unfortunately, as Amigotechs operators only accept US players, I cannot verify the Blackjack issue. However this is an issue that falls more under the heading of 'bug' than cheating. If the rules state that double should be offered 11 against an 8 the correct thing to do is discontinue the game and contact support to ask why you're not being provided with the double option. If they can't provide a fix to allow you to do this, ask them to refund the hand and stop playing.

There's no good reason to trust this operator - they're running on a software platform that's been repeatedly caught offering proven cheating games. I understand your frustration and share your suspicion, but I can't prove you've been cheated with what you've provided so far.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

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