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Conversations with Amigotechs

This page is a full transcript of this site’s correspondence with the CEO of Amigotechs software following the publication of this article – http://thepogg.com/skybook-cheating-video-poker-amigotechs-software/ – detailing substantial issue with the results a player received while playing 2 Ways Royal at Skybook casino, beginning from the date of publication. Emails sent by this site have a green background while emails received from Amigotechs have an orange background. All personal details have been edited out. Oldest communications are at the top getting more recent the further down the page they are.

Hi [AMIGOTECH CEO]/[AFFCORNER AM],

As stated in my last communication I’ve now published this report – http://thepogg.com/skybook-cheating-video-poker-amigotechs-software/. As you’ll be able to see, the analysis has now been verified by to other respected gaming mathematicians.

If no action has been taken to return this player’s losses by the 20th of April, I will be paying the player myself.

[ThePOGG]

[ThePOGG];

We have not been notified of this issue until I contacted you Apr 6.

Below is what I received Apr 6 and at this point I visited your website where I found some wrong information on your website about Pamper and You Wager.

Your reply email enlightened me as to who the player was and when this complaint was sent to you. I was not aware of any issue.

I sent another email requesting a conversation with you but I received no reply. I would like to discuss the situation….

Please provide a phone number. Mine is on our website.

Thank you,

Regards,

[AMIGOTECH CEO]

From: [THEPOGG EMAIL] On Behalf Of Webmaster@ThePOGG

Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2015 6:24 AM

To: support@skybook.ag; casino@skybook.ag; support@affcorner.com; [AM]@affcorner.com

Subject: FAO MANAGEMENT – Player cheated by Skybook Video Poker

Hello,

My name is [ThePOGG] and I own and operate ThePOGG.com.

We were recently contacted by a player at Skybook casino who was concerned about the results they’d received when playing one of your Video Poker games. Over a session of 560 hands the player played near perfect strategy and did not receive a single hand better than 2 Pair. Alongside this out of 34 plays on the Double-Up feature – which should offer the player a 50/50 chance of winning – they won only 4 times.

I’ve received the full hand history in both screenshot and video format and have conducted statistical testing on the data set. I can confirm that the player’s play was accurate in well over 99% of hands and in both data samples – that for the main game and that for the Double-Up feature which you would analyses separately – the players results demonstrated a level of deviation from the expected results that could not occur when playing a fair game. I want to emphasize at this stage that this conclusion is a mathematical certainty.

I will be publishing a report detailing my findings. Before I publish said report I’m looking to offer Skybook and the other AffCorner properties the opportunity to repay the wrongfully taken balance to this player and all players who have been affected by this situation.

I’d appreciate a member of your management team getting in contact with me to arrange for this asap. User details and statistical analysis can be provided on request.

Regards,

[ThePOGG]

Hi [AMIGOTECH CEO],

No email’s been received requesting further conversation. However no phone call will be entertained. Anything you have to say can be said over email where there is a written record of the conversation that I can refer to.

Regard,

[ThePOGG]

[ThePOGG];

Anything you have to say can be said over email where there is a written record of the conversation that I can refer to.Does this mean whatever I write to you will be posted on your forum?

I am not sure what you meant by this in your publication.

“For the player individually, the path that was most likely to return their losses is the right course of action. In all likelihood I would have had a far greater chance of getting this player’s losses returned if I’d been prepared to deal with this quietly – i.e. spoken to the involved parties and stated that as long as the player’s money was returned I wouldn’t publish anything further regarding this issue.”

“So for players in general publication was best and for the individual that actually came to me looking for my help non-publication would have been the best road.”

=================================================================================================================

Where in the email that I received from you on april 6 in the afternoon is the statement below?

“At the time of this contact Amigotechs were provided with a complete copy of this report and informed of our intention to publish the report on Friday the 10th of April to allow them time to offer any response or to detail a planned course of action.”

We have had only 3 business days of being aware of this problem. (Friday, April 10 was a holiday here) We were never contacted by you or asked about paying the player. The “[AFFCORNER AM]” person you were in conversation with has never contacted us. The first I knew of this incident was the same day I visited you website…. I contacted you as I noticed discrepancies on your site about us. We are investigating why this happened. Games before and after have played fair using your analysis. I have to verify with the licensee of the software when this issue occurred why we were not informed and move forward with a solution for the player.

===================================================================================================================

Your post about Pamper and their payout practices has nothing to do with us as they have not used our software in a very long time. (ended 2012) When they were our customer I am not aware of any player complaints about fairness of the software. Your site info about Pamper is dated Nov 2014. I only request that you correct this?
The link http://www.beatingbonuses.com/ast.htm ThrillX was using a pirated copy of our development software (never in production) . It was also not using our certified RNG (certification of TST)but one written by the person who stole the software. Also the date of which this post was made with no other info or proof of the claim was sometime before 2012. You are very strong in criticizing and then posting without confirming or discussing the information and length of time since an issue has passed. Software suppliers do correct issues.

“The review references the fact that Amigotechs have been included on our Blacklist – i.e. we consider their previous association with you to be damaging to them, not the other way round”

Due to 4 links over 12 years, you have posted:

http://www.beatingbonuses.com/ast.htm Totally inaccurate.

These 3 are the same issue http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/online/7774-amigotechs-online-gaming-solutions-warning/

Rigged Video Poker Game by Amigotechs Found at YouWager.eu


http://wizardofodds.com/online-gambling/blacklist/amigotech-warning.pdf

I do not understand why you would post this?

“With so many reported issues on top of our finding this situation paints a very dark picture of the integrity of Amigotechs software.”

================================================================================================================

Regards,

[AMIGOTECHS CEO]

Hi [AMIGOTECHS CEO],

It means exactly what it says – if you’ve nothing to hide you’ve nothing to worry about being published in the forums. I’m not entering into any “private” conversations regarding this issue. We both know what’s going on here, so private conversation’s off the table. I will be publishing anything I deem relevant to this issue.

I gave you not only forewarning of the report being published, but an extra 3 days afterwards to offer any statement or present a course of action. You failed to do that and I did exactly what I said I was going to do – publish the report. There was no work to be done at your end – the figures have already been analysed. If you wanted someone to confirm them at your end, it was a short task and shouldn’t have taken one day never mind 3. I find it very strange that your emails on the 6th were getting through fine, your emails today are getting through fine, but the supposed contact between didn’t get through….

I simply don’t believe at all that you just so happened across my website the day that I contacted AffCorner – your primary client – about cheating games run by you. I don’t think anyone else will either. Feel free to hold to that line if you wish, but no-one’s going to buy it.

[AMIGOTECH CEO] – a quality software provider doesn’t end up with 1 credible game discrepancy – Amigotechs have been caught out time and time again. Either your team are incompetent at a level that’s frankly unforgivable or you’re intentionally cheating. Incompetence would lead to errors both for and against the casino. The reports against Amigotechs only go one way.

Offer whatever response you want to this issue – I’m sure it will be a coding error that just so happened to rig the main game AND the double game in your favour (as every single “error” so far has ended up going in your favour). I’ll be happy to publish whatever statement you provide and you can feel free to publish it on any forums too. In fact I’ll go so far as to produce screenshots or videos of any emails that come through so that it can be confirmed that the statement that you send through is reproduced exactly within the article. At that point we can leave it to the reader to decide which view is more likely to be based in fact.

[ThePOGG]

Wow …. I can see there is no discussion here. I never said I was analyzing your figures. I would have like for you just to answer my questions please? You write things I don’t even write or you misunderstand.
Example; where in your email on april 6, you wrote “I gave you not only forewarning of the report being published, but an extra 3 days afterwards to offer any statement or present a course of action. “?

Your statement of the following: Amigotechs have been caught out time and time again. I pointed out your forum mentions 4 links, 3 are for exactly the same issue.

Your are being defensive and attacking me when I have done nothing to you except trying to have a discussion and a solution for the player. I do not want to fight with you.

I never said I sent emails with an “s” plural. I sent one asking for a phone conversation…. But you have answered this question.

If we are just going to send emails back and forth with me trying to have a dialog to point out some discrepancies with your product/forum, of course which effect us, try to have you correct them and also solving the most important issue of players’ funds…. we don’t seem yet to have mentioned what you would like us to do. You are in conversation with the player not me.

I have never said that we… meaning the licensee or us would not refund him. You never gave me the option.

[AMIGOTECHS CEO]

From: mailto:webmaster@thepogg.com

Sent: Monday, April 13, 2015 4:38 PM

To: [AMIGOTECHS CEO]

Subject: Re: Video Poker.

Hi [AMIGOTECHS CEO],

It means exactly what it says – if you’ve nothing to hide you’ve nothing to worry about being published in the forums. I’m not entering into any “private” conversations regarding this issue. We both know what’s going on here, so private conversation’s off the table. I will be publishing anything I deem relevant to this issue.

I gave you not only forewarning of the report being published, but an extra 3 days afterwards to offer any statement or present a course of action. You failed to do that and I did exactly what I said I was going to do – publish the report. There was no work to be done at your end – the figures have already been analysed. If you wanted someone to confirm them at your end, it was a short task and shouldn’t have taken one day never mind 3. I find it very strange that your emails on the 6th were getting through fine, your emails today are getting through fine, but the supposed contact between didn’t get through….

I simply don’t believe at all that you just so happened across my website the day that I contacted AffCorner – your primary client – about cheating games run by you. I don’t think anyone else will either. Feel free to hold to that line if you wish, but no-one’s going to buy it. Never said I happened on your site “The first I knew of this incident was the same day I visited you website” Nothing was posted on your site, so I had an inquiry from a 3rd party about the problem of which I went to your site to find out who and what you are.

[AMIGOTECH CEO] – a quality software provider doesn’t end up with 1 credible game discrepancy – Amigotechs have been caught out time and time again. Either your team are incompetent at a level that’s frankly unforgivable or you’re intentionally cheating. Incompetence would lead to errors both for and against the casino. The reports against Amigotechs only go one way. Forums nevergenerally do not publish a player who complains and it is pointed our where his problem was

Hi [AMIGOTECHS CEO],

I’ll address your points to try and give you a clear perspective of my position;

Regarding the 4 referenced reports – you’re absolutely right that 3 of those reports refer to the same issue. However, the 4th – the BeatingBonuses page – references several different players having issues. I have worked closely with the owner of that site and I know he wouldn’t publish what he did had he not either a) verified the results himself or b) received analysis of results from a mathematically credible source. While BeatingBonuses has never tried to take on the role that I do (that being a player advocate) and as such never attempted to draw attention to these issues or publish in depth analysis of the specific issues, the site is very credible on the game analysis level and if they state that “several” players have received non-normal results that’s more than one issue.

The primary question here however relates to your honesty and frankly I don’t believe you’ve been honest in your previous dealings with Eliot Jacobson and I have sound reason to believe that you’ve already been dishonest in our discourse.

In the first instance, the issues I’ve encountered bear a striking similarity to the issues that Eliot Jacobson previously highlighted. During the peer review process where I engaged Eliot’s services I discussed the similarity of the two issues and he agreed with my view and stated;

“Feel free to refer to my document above, saying that it appears that Amigotechs intentionally has this feature and has done nothing to fix it. ”

I haven’t gone so far as to state this in the report as I felt that this issue stood in its own rights without the needing more than a passing reference to historical issues.

My opinion – based on the evidence available – is simple; the previous issue dealt with by Eliot Jacobson was neither accident not subsequently fixed and this situation is just a further occurrence of the same issue. I view this as an issue where your software has been intentionally programmed to act with malice towards players and in the interest of the operators you supply. As such I have absolutely no sympathy for you and providing you any benefit of the doubt would be inappropriate.

Further to the above – given that you have had no issues sending or receiving emails to or from me on the 6th or the 13th, I do not believe that you tried to email me in the interim period.

Finally, and very substantially, the coincidence you claim – that you just so happened to come upon my site and decide to contact me on the 6th of April, the same day that I followed-up on a very serious game integrity issue with what is likely to be your primary client AffCorner is unlikely in the extreme. Occam’s Razor tell us that the simplest explanation is likely to be correct. Out of the two scenarios – 1) that AffCorner informed you of my communications with them and your visit to my site and the subsequent emails were a direct consequence of this or 2) that by random chance you just so happened to find my site on the 6th of April while going about your daily business and decided to drop me an email on the same day that I followed up with AffCorner regarding an issue I’d alerted them to on the 2nd which directly implicated you, and that you do not know the primary affiliate manager at your primary client – scenario one would seem to any objective analysis far simpler. On a very basic level, the first action that any casino takes when confronted with a credible game integrity issue is to contact the supplier of the game and get them involved. As such I am no way convinced of your honesty here either.

The chain of communication and how you happened to become aware of my site are actively inconsequential in the grand scheme of things, but the perceived attempts at manipulation of the facts certainly doesn’t incline me towards faith in your character.

Given that all of the above strongly indicate a pattern of falsehoods, I do not trust you nor anything you’re telling me. Fundamentally I do not see any good reason to trust you and nor am I going to put myself in a position where I do not have a documented record of all communication between us.

This extends to your explanation of AST/ThrillX software as ripped off versions of Amigotechs. This may be true, but I’m not inclined to accept your word for it and there’s also a substantial issue with this explanation. Both Pamper and SBG Global have previously used AST software. Both these venues went on to be clients of Amigotechs. Why would you work with groups that had actively worked with someone who had stolen your product? I’m sure there are potentially mundane explanations for this, but when considered alongside everything else I’m more inclined to believe that these were older versions of Amigotechs that were rebranded.

As to what response Amigotechs or Skybook offer to this issue, I really have no strong opinions regarding what you do. This issue already has more than enough credibility for me to provide a stark warning to players and affiliates. As stated previously I’m happy to publish whatever statement you wish to make regarding this issue, but will be clear that I’m not going to endorse any attempt to pass this off as accident.

If you choose to repay this particular player that would be a positive thing for me. I’ve already clearly stated that if this player’s losses are not returned ($7150) I will be paying the player myself. As such your decision to pay or not is completely irrelevant to the player and only has financial implications me. If you or Skybook choose to repay the wrongfully taken funds all you have to do is let me know, I’ll confirm receipt with the player, and I’ll detail this in the relevant section of the report. You know who the player is, you need no input from me to action the return of the money, or put another way, I’m not the one who can “give” you this option.

What returning the money won’t do is change the conclusions of my report as it won’t in any way change the results of the data set.

This course of action also wouldn’t address my concern regarding all other player’s engaged with this and all other Amigotechs games at Skybook at the time this player played. I find it unlikely that this player would be the only one affected, unless the game had been fundamentally changed just before or after this player played and I also have concerns about the results of other games around this time.

Finally, regarding forums not publishing instances where the player wins more than is mathematically possible rather than less – you’re somewhat right. Player positive issues are less likely to come to light as the player doesn’t complain and as such no investigation is likely to be instigated by their behaviour. However, situations where a casino identifies a malfunctioning game that has paid out too much are far from unheard of and usually result in the casino seizing winnings. Off the top of my head this issue springs to mind – http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48633. Ultimately these types of situations tend to get just as much coverage as the player doesn’t get paid anyway and given there have been no reports of this type of activity at Amigotechs brands, it’s fair to conclude that the game issues have only gone in the casino’s favour.

I leave the ball in your court. Feel free to let me know what statement you want published and what decision you reach regarding the player’s losses.

[ThePOGG]

Hi [AMIGOTECHS CEO],

Just to follow up on one further issue from my previous email;

Having reviewed our email chain I’m no longer convinced that you are claiming you found my site by coincidences. It appears that you may have been contacting me as a direct consequence of my communications with [AFFCORNER AM]. What I cannot understand if that’s the case is why you would contact me on unrelated, irrelevant or trivial issues (wrong screen shots on the DGS review and a historic association with Pamper casino) when there was a serious software integrity issue that needed to be addressed? At the very least that appears to be some substantially confused priorities….

[ThePOGG]

Hi [AMIGOTECHS CEO],

Reviewing our email conversation it appears you have some issue with exactly where/when you were informed about the date of publication for the report. As such I’m including below my email chain with AffCorner from the 6th of April where I highlight the stated date of publication. Given that your initial email followed hot on the heels of this communication I felt it reasonable to assume AffCorner were sharing information with you. If that’s not been the case you need to take this up with your business partner, who without question should have shared highly pertinent information (and did share other information) with you on the 6th.

Regards,

[ThePOGG]

———- Forwarded message ———-

From: [AM] <[AM]@affcorner.com>

Date: Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 5:32 PM

Subject: RE: FAO MANAGEMENT – Player cheated by Skybook Video Poker

To: “Webmaster@ThePOGG” <webmaster@thepogg.com>

Hi [ThePOGG],

Thanks for your email. I’m glad to hear from you. I emailed you a couple of times before and no response.

Can you please provide me more details about this issue so I can forward it to casino department? The player account would be very helpful to review his history. Thanks for your promptly response.

[AFFCORNER AM]

Affiliate Manager

AffCorner.com

Skype: [REMOVED]

From: [ThePOGG EMAIL] On Behalf Of Webmaster@ThePOGG

Sent: Monday, April 06, 2015 5:16 AM

To: support@skybook.ag; casino@skybook.ag; support@affcorner.com; [AM]@affcorner.com

Subject: Re: FAO MANAGEMENT – Player cheated by Skybook Video Poker

Following up on the below email. I appreciate that this has been Easter weekend, but given the serious nature of this issue a response needs to be provided immediately. If come Friday the 10th of April no response has been received I will be publishing a full report into this issue.

Regards,

[ThePOGG]

On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 12:24 PM, Webmaster@ThePOGG <webmaster@thepogg.com> wrote:

Hello,

My name is [ThePOGG] and I own and operate ThePOGG.com.

We were recently contacted by a player at Skybook casino who was concerned about the results they’d received when playing one of your Video Poker games. Over a session of 560 hands the player played near perfect strategy and did not receive a single hand better than 2 Pair. Alongside this out of 34 plays on the Double-Up feature – which should offer the player a 50/50 chance of winning – they won only 4 times.

I’ve received the full hand history in both screenshot and video format and have conducted statistical testing on the data set. I can confirm that the player’s play was accurate in well over 99% of hands and in both data samples – that for the main game and that for the Double-Up feature which you would analyses separately – the players results demonstrated a level of deviation from the expected results that could not occur when playing a fair game. I want to emphasize at this stage that this conclusion is a mathematical certainty.

I will be publishing a report detailing my findings. Before I publish said report I’m looking to offer Skybook and the other AffCorner properties the opportunity to repay the wrongfully taken balance to this player and all players who have been affected by this situation.

I’d appreciate a member of your management team getting in contact with me to arrange for this asap. User details and statistical analysis can be provided on request.

Regards,

[ThePOGG]