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Spinia - refusing to pay my balance

Ruling

Resolved - Both the submitting complainant and Spinia Casino have informed us that this issue has been resolved and the player has received their funds.

Read our Spinia Casino Review.

Player's Complaint

Spinia at first fully verified my account including a proof of income in addition to the proof of identity, proof of payment and proof of address i did.

Later they claimed the proof of income isnt accepted yet. I sent in very many documents to proof the source of funds.

I told them that i won a lot on betfair, which is true. Supporting evidence was a chat with betfair in which a member of their stuff confirms my winnings. I also sent them a certificate of winning from betfair. In addition i also added a transaction history of all transfers done with my skrill and betfair, Which exactly matches the sums of the betfair certificate of winning.

They didnt accepted any of these.

Instead they ask for an online bank statement showing 3 month of transactions. I never used an online bank to deposit. I exclusively used skrill. Not sure if skrill was meant. I ask if they are talking about Skrill in many emails. This question was not answered.

I refused to send in a bank statement as this has nothing to do with anti money laundering and is just harassment and a invasion of my privacy.

I also ask if they accept any other proof of income. As the one I gave to them was not accepted. They refused to answer this question as well. I messaged Spinia about 10 times: Asking for other documents which will be accepted and the amount it has to be for. I even put the question in bold the last 5 times. Still not getting an answer. After this farce took about a month Spinia finally sent me the following email, accusing me of fraud although they are the once [EDIT] now:

Dear Player,

Please be informed that our security service has identified activity in your account, which is classified as fraud. The Сasino has zero-tolerance to fraudulent actions. Based on that, your account has been closed, without any chance of reopening.

If we determine in the future that you have opened a new account in our Сasino, the account will also be closed and all funds confiscated.

The Company has a strict anti-fraud policy. If the player is suspected of fraudulent actions including but not limited to:

-participating in any type of collusion with other players,

-development of strategies aimed at unfaithful winnings,

-fraudulent actions against other online casinos or payment providers,

-charge back procedures with a credit card or denial of some payments made,

-going bankrupt in the country of their residence,

-creating two or more accounts

-providing incorrect personal data during registration,

-low risk roulette play when the player places equal bets on both black and red or even and odd covering 25 or more out of 37 numbers on the table. (Placing bets on both black and red covers 36 of 37 possible numbers)

-other types of cheating,

You can get acquainted with the full version of our Terms and Conditions on our website.

https://www.spinia.com/terms-and-conditions

Keep in mind that you have agreed with our Terms and Conditions during the registration process.

This decision was made by casinos management and is not subject to further consideration.

Respectfully,

Casino Support Team

This is obviously completely out of line. I proofed the source of wealth with no doubt and i dont understand why Spinia took this step. I can only guess I assume they are a ponzi schme not having the money or they are [EDIT].

Anyways please get this right and stop this unlawful behaviour of Spinia.

Kind Regards

Read the casino review

25 Responses

User icon
thepogg
July 15, 2021

Hi praios - welcome to ThePOGG.com.

Please ensure you have read our Complaint Guidance to ensure that fully understand how our complaint management process functions.

As we are the ADR for the N1 Interactive Ltd license under the Malta Gaming Authority license there is certain information we have to provide you now.

You can find all the relevant information about this service here – http://thepogg.com/terms-of-use/ and the terms of use for our complaint service here - https://thepogg.com/terms-of-use-for-dispute-resolution-service/

To summarise.

– Use of this service does not preclude your seeking redress through court proceedings .

– This service is free to use for both the complainant and operator.

– At any point during the procedure the submitting party retains the right to withdraw their complaint. This does not preclude our right to continue the discussion with the involved operator of general issues related to the complaint (i.e. insufficiently clear terms and conditions).

– You are not obliged to obtain independent or legal advice or representation, though you may choose to do so.

Where did the funds in your Skrill account oriniate? Prior to your win with Betfair.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

User icon
thepogg
July 25, 2021

Hi praios,

I'm following-up on the above?

Thanks,

ThePOGG

User icon
thepogg
August 1, 2021

Hi praios,

If we haven't heard from you by Friday the 14th of August I'll assume you no longer need our assistance and close this complaint.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

User icon
praios
August 7, 2021

I won a lot on Poker, thats there the money originated from.

I used to be a profession in Poker for many years, as the games were still soft.

User icon
praios
August 7, 2021

I also think this question is unnecessary and has nothing to do with the case at all. In addition to that i am also the lucky child of rich parents so money was never an issue.

Please now proceed with the complaint!

User icon
thepogg
August 8, 2021

Hi praios,

You are going to need to be able to demonstrate ownership of the funds that were originally used to gamble.

If you are saying that you won the money playing poker, then where did the funds come from with which you started playing poker? Presumably you've made a deposit to your Skrill account from a bank account? Where did the funds in the bank account come from?

I'm sorry you feel that this is "unnecessary", but sadly we disagree on that matter.

So please, clearly detail exactly how your Skrill account was funded. If you cannot do this, and provide a documented paper trail showing your ownership of the funds in your Skrill wallet, there is nothing we can do to help you.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

User icon
praios
August 9, 2021

At first this is nothing of your business at all. How long should i show you back dated data from the past and how should i do that? This is many years ago many of the sites dont even exist anymore.

Skrill by the way did all these checks multiple times lready. But now a random site on the internet wants to do it again?

Also the banks already did all the checks. So my funds are legitimant only you and the corrupt site (spinia) thinks that i have ilicit funds. Spinia dont even thinks that, its just them terrorizing me and trying to steal my money. And you are accomplice to that bullshit.

Please let me know what documents you would accept in order to stop spinia from stealing from me?

User icon
praios
August 9, 2021

This is my Profil at poker strategy:

[EDIT]

This used to be the biggest poker school on the internet with millions of players. I started of with 50$ Bankroll (a gift from the site) and build it up to millions. You can see that i got more than 2million strategy points. You get this points for generating rake. This translates to millions of poker hands.

But my poker career was many years back most sites dont exist anymore or it would be hard to get detailed records which you would accept thats why i am willing to show you other sources of income.

Am i right assuming that i only need to prove 20.000€ of funds getting into my skrill befor I made a deposit on spinia?

So I need to show you 20k of income from other sources to proof that my funds are not illicit. Correct?

I assume this because my net deposits on Spinia never exeeded 20.000 so thats why i made the assumption that I "only" need to proof the orgin of money for this amount.

Please let me know if this is true?

If thats not true please let me know for which amount you need a proof of funds!

Please also give me an email adress, where i can sent a detailed documention to.

Please also keep this private and confidential just between us. DONT share any more private information with the scammers of N1casino!

If you find that the source of funds is not illicit, you will also rule against spinia and rule in my favour and have them return my money. correct?

User icon
praios
August 12, 2021

Please answer my questions Waiting a few days already for a reply

User icon
thepogg
August 13, 2021

Hi praios,

Firstly - from this point on keep your communications polite and respectful. If you fail to do so, we will discontinue any involvement in your claim.

Secondly, I will again refer you to our Complaint Guidance. You need to familiarise yourself with that document, and indeed the red alter immediately above the comment box, to ensure you understand when you will receive responses to your complaint.

Moving on to your issue itself - the operator are doing only what they are legally required to do. The practices of Skrill are not relevant and would offer the operator no defense if it was later shown that there was an issue with your funds. The operator are the party that are legally obligated to carry out these checks at this juncture.

We are not the party conducting the verification process. Showing us documentation is not going to work. Our role is simply to ensure that the operator's practice is fair and in line with the requirements that they are legally obligated to meet. At the present time, the requests made are not unreasonable. If you are unwilling to provide the operator the documentation necessary to verify your account there is nothing further that we can do for you.

To clarify - you are saying that you have never made a deposit to your Skrill account, and that your entire Skrill balance is derived from poker play that was entirely generated via a $50 no deposit bonus which started you playing? If so that is remarkable. Congratulations on your good fortune/skill. However, you will understand that is a very unusual manner to derive funds and as such naturally will come under a higher level of scrutiny in a circumstance like this.

No, a screenshot showing a large numerical figure based on an unaudited system within an affiliate website would not be sufficient to demonstrate your ownership of the funds in question.

If you are claiming that your funds are entirely derived from play, then presumably the first transaction on your Skrill account will be a withdrawal from a poker operator to your Skrill account? That would be where you need to start. So I would suggest requesting full statements for your Skrill account from the payment provider. In this manner you can demonstrate that your Skrill account was solely funded from withdrawals from operators, and not via any other 3rd party source.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

User icon
praios
August 16, 2021

First the one out of line is not me here. Spinias practices are more than questionable, mostlikely even unlawfull. The whole thing has nothing to do with proving the source of funds. I did this many times, they just dont want to pay and do everything in their power to withhold my funds (winnings and deposits).

Second the request made in your post is substancially different from the one they ask for. So what should i do now? Sent them 3 Month of Transaction histroy of my Skrill (their request) or should I instead do what you say (proof the source of funds until the moment they were printed essentially)?

Before I send more documents, I would also like to know how much money I have to provide proof of. In my opinion, 20,000 should be enough, but I need confirmation of this beforehand.

I think this is verymuch pointless as I have a strong suspicion that no matter what documents I submit, none of them will ever be accepted.

Actually your request makes more sense than the one of Spinia, but they never ask me for that. I wonder how this can be. To be exactly they stopped communicating at all and just said that my money is confiscated quoting almost their entire terms. This sounded final to me and now you come with a request that is almost imposible to fullfill.

In case I do they mostlikly will ask for even more things or just deny it again without giving a reason for it.

So please come back to me with a detailed explaination on waht would be accepted no strings attached no further delaying afterwards.

Especially also tell me the amount i got to prove to them.

I have other streams of income to i am for example an affiliate for skrill. I can send referal reports showing income beyond the amount ever sent to spinia will this be a sufficient proof of funds? Will you leave me allown after I submit that and can I get my money afterwards?

By the way there is no way to sent this documents to spinia for me anymore, as they only accept files uploaded on their website, being logged in. I can not log in anymore as my account is suspended....

So will this be a sufficient proof of funds and how can i submit it?

I might be able to arange that skrill sent the confirmation directly so that there is no doubed anymore that i earned the money legitamently. But you need to give me an emailadress or something.

By the way the reports are in pdf or excel format. Incomprehensibly Spinia will not accept any of these formats, although most documents are in this filetype.

P.S.: My anger is more than justified and neither spinia nor thepogg behaves appropriately, it is pretended that I am the bad guy, whereas this is obviously not the case.

If this complaint is a dead end I will definately go public with this case and also sue spinia potentially the pogg too. This System is obviously broken and very unfair with a huge power imbalance to the detriment of the players.

User icon
praios
August 20, 2021

Please answer to my post. its taking 4 days now

User icon
thepogg
August 21, 2021

Hi praios,

Firstly - if you engage in any further threats towards this service of any kind we will disengage any further representation of your claim. If you are unhappy with the service you are receiving - free of any charge to you I would add - you are entitled to take your claim through the court systems, as was detailed in our first response to your claim.

Your issues here relate to your own uncooperative behavior and failure to engage with a legal requirement that is there to prevent fraud and money laundering. You have absolutely no grounds to direct any of your anger or frustration in our direction.

This is your final warning on this front.

I will again direct you to our Complaints Guidance for information on how and when you will receive responses to your complaint. You are no more or less important than any of the hundreds of other complainants we are managing at any given time and your case will be reviewed as with all other cases in the order it was received.

As to your case, if you no longer have access to upload files we will be happy to speak to the operator regarding that aspect of your claim. With regard to what you need to provide - as I've already explained to you, the operator are the party that are managing the verification process, not us. I provided guidance based on how I would proceed to demonstrate the ownership of the funds given the difficulties that you have described, in a manner that would leave minimal room for ambiguity, were I in your shoes. However, your quickest way to resolve your issue - as has been the case since prior to the submission of your complaint - would be to simply comply with the requests that the operator has made.

ThePOGG

User icon
praios
August 22, 2021

Look, I was very cooperative. They just didnt accepted any of the documents. I have sent spinia more documents than ever to a casino before. Spinias communication also is more than bad, they either dont reply at all or ask for more documents. Often they also ask for documents they already recived a long time ago.

The 3 month of skrill history also has nothing to do with the things you claim they want (the source of funds). This would proof nothing at all. I also already submitted all relevant transactions to them.

I am also very sure that it doesnt matter what ever document i send in, they will either reject it or ask for more.

Anyways please ask them what documents they want and also ask them to give me a possibility to transmit it to them.

User icon
thepogg
August 25, 2021

Hi praios,

I have already reached out to the operator to get some clarification on this matter and will revert once we have an appropriately clear overview of the situation.

However I do have to point out the following from your complaint submission:

"I refused to send in a bank statement"

Refusal is by definition the opposite of cooperation.

ThePOGG

User icon
praios
August 25, 2021

i sent several bankstatements befor with all relevant information included.

User icon
praios
August 31, 2021

I requested 6Month of history from skrill , just received it. I cant sent it to spinia as already mentioned.

This is a lot more than ask for by spinia. Please ask them how we should proceed and how i can sent them the document.

User icon
praios
September 1, 2021

I dont think they want any more documents. Spinia just wants to keep my money for no reason, please do something. I know this because this is the message i got today. Its also confirming that i already sent in everything multiple times (or at least once):

[EDIT] (screenshot of the support message)

User icon
praios
September 1, 2021

Please also let me know what of the 3 is true:

"1. For complaints managed under our ADR remit that are for the value of €5000 or less our rulings are considered legally binding.

2. For complaints managed under our ADR remit that are for the value of €5000.01 or more, rulings are only considered legally binding if the trader agrees in advance of discussion of the complaint to view the ruling as legally binding.

3. For complaints managed outside of our ADR remit, rulings are non-binding in nature."

Is the first, second or third one true for my case.

What happens if you decide in my favour and the ruling is non binding? Will all this be pointless then?

Or can you redirect this one to the MGA with the recommandation of forcing spinia to pay me?

The screenshot above is very significant and I think it shows what I have been saying all along: Spinia is not interested in treating me fairly and pay me my remaining funds.

User icon
praios
September 13, 2021

I have not received any feedback for 3 weeks. Please give me a feedback or make a ruling.

The case is also crystal clear, I have sent all the requested statments and documents, most of them even several times, because Spinia was asking for the same documents over and over again.

After this happend several times I at some point refused to sent another statement as they received it a few times already.

Spinia simply has no interest in releasing my funds ever again.

They even admitted that they have received everything already and that they don't want any more documents (see screenshot above).

I also verified myself at some Casinos before registering and playing at Spinia. I never had such problems as on there, usually one third of the documents i sent to spinia were enough at the other operators to get fully verified.

It is also not possible to send Spinia other documents, as this would only be possible in the account to which I no longer have access. Spinia also said that they had all the necessary documents and for them the case is settled and my money should be brazenly confiscated (see screenshot for the post above).

Even before this happened, most of my emails were ignored. Questions I asked again and again, e.g. about how much money I have to do the proof of funds for, were never answered.

Even simple questions like which documents would be accepted were not answered by Spinia.

Documents which were accepted multiply times befor at other sites got denied at Spinia.

The same dokuments which were sent multiple times and also got accepted befor got requested again and again...

I hope you see the pattern and that they dont answer to you either is just another piece to the puzzle showing who is the one out of line or even fraudulent. Its not me its Spinia.

User icon
thepogg
September 19, 2021

Hi praios,

Far from what you represent, having reviewed your activity you have very clearly been engaged in practices that no casino is going to be happy with and that are going to raise red flags. More than that you were absolutely, without reasonable doubt, aware of what you were doing and as such were entirely aware that when identified it was very likely to result in this type of situation.

The pretence of ignorance of the problem/innocence that you have maintained throughout your interactions here is entirely without merit as is the moral outrage that you have espoused regarding the circumstances you find yourself in. You made clear decisions in this matter that you were unquestionably aware could lead to exactly this situation. It comes as no surprise to us, nor you, that your account has been subjected to enhanced verification procedures or that you've experienced difficulties getting paid.

Nevertheless, we are now engaged in a dialogue on your behalf reviewing the legitimacy of the actions taken by the operator in this circumstance under the Maltese regulatory system. As I'm sure will come as no surprise to you, this is a time consuming processes. We will revert to you once an appropriate conclusion has been reached.

Until that point you will need to be patient.

ThePOGG

User icon
thepogg
October 17, 2021

Hi praios,

Spinia have informed us that you have been paid. Can you confirm receipt of your funds?

ThePOGG

User icon
thepogg
October 23, 2021

Hi praios,

I'm following-up on the above?

Thanks,

ThePOGG

User icon
praios
October 30, 2021

hi yes it took a while until they paid in full but I can confirm that i recevied the money

User icon
thepogg
October 30, 2021

Hi praios,

Thanks for letting us know - it is appreciated.

ThePOGG

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Agreement

praios consented for ThePOGG to act on their behalf and share the personal information that they provide to ThePOGG with the following agencies for the purposes of resolving their complaint:

  • Spinia
  • Malta Gaming Authority
  • N1 Interactive Ltd

July 15, 2021

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