Karamba - incorrectly settled bet

Hi roceark - welcome to ThePOGG.com!

Please ensure you have read our Complaint Guidance to ensure that you fully understand how our complaint management process functions.

As we are the ADR for the Aspire Global license under the Malta Gaming Authority license there is certain information we have to provide you now.

You can find all the relevant information about this service here – http://thepogg.com/terms-of-use/ and the terms of use for our complaint service here - https://thepogg.com/terms-of-use-for-dispute-resolution-service/

To summarise.

– Use of this service does not preclude your seeking redress through court proceedings .

– This service is free to use for both the complainant and operator.

– At any point during the procedure the submitting party retains the right to withdraw their complaint. This does not preclude our right to continue the discussion with the involved operator of general issues related to the complaint (i.e. insufficiently clear terms and conditions).

– You are not obliged to obtain independent or legal advice or representation, though you may choose to do so.

If you have any questions about the above, let me know.

Firstly, unless you have given the operator some clear reason to believe that you are not in control of your gambling, this issue has nothing to do with "Safe gambling / responsible gambling". If you have been contacting the operator's responsible gambling officer for issues not relating to gambling addiction or gambling harms, you have been contacting this person inappropriately and it is not surprising that they stopped responding to you.

Specifically what event did you bet on? Please provide the date, time and participating teams, alongside the nature of the bet your placed.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi roceark,

I'm following-up on the above?

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi,

Delighted to have the chance to reply to your message. Is it available for anyone on this website to read ? I have “given the operator clear reason to believe I am not in control of my gambling” to quote your response. The clear reason for my lack of control, which for some reason I am obliged to discuss with you nearly 5 months later, was due to the operator settling bets as losers when they did not lose. Subsequently a request to close the account was ignored. A request for a statement of all bets was ignored. I note you are asking me for a copy of the bet ID. - no response from your partners at Karamba. Your comment - “you have been contacting this person inappropriately and it is not surprising that they stopped responding to you” is grotesque and completely counter productive for anyone conducting arbitration to make. I am requesting an apology. Do you want to ask Karamba for the bet ID? Given that you seem to have such reverence for them I feel it would be “inappropriate” for a common pleb such as myself. Also they ignored me anyway.

So I think we are here :

1. You apologise for that comment.

2. Karamba provide a statement basic stuff for a regulated entity.

3. Happy to listen to any suggestions you may have provided they are not wildly prejudicial.

Hi roceark,

To respond to your lengthy list of grievances - Your communications with this service began when you originally contacted us in 2019 via email. At that time you were directed to submit a complaint via the same online service you are using now. You asserted that you were unable to do so due to a cookie related issue and indicated that you were unwilling to clear your browser cache, unwilling to use an alternative browser and unable to access any other device - a circumstance that we have never encountered with any other complainant contacting this service and, given your unwillingness to act, a personal choice.

You then looked to raise questions about the independence of this service which culminated in you submitting an entirely redundant Subject Access Request for all information we held on you, the total of which was the emails you had sent over the preceding 24h and the account information you had used to register. As we had not received any complaint from you, we had never engaged any processing of personal information on your behalf and would have no information beyond what you had directly provided.

After meeting the legal requirements to address your Subject Access Request we did not hear further from you until 2020 where you enquired about submitting complaints both against Mr Win and Karamba again via email. Again you never actually submitted any complaint.

You have now submitted your complaint in 2022. We would draw your attention to the terms of use of this service which you have agreed to at the point where you submitted your complaint, and specifically the situations in which this service can decline to review a complaint:

ThePOGG.com retains the right to refuse to manage a complaint in the following circumstances:

Where a complaint is about an issue that dates back more than 18 months. We may still consider complaints reaching further back than this, but this will be at the discretion of our ADR Official"

Any review of this matter at this stage, significantly after the above stated time frame, is entirely at our discretion.

Further to this, I would direct your attention to the section of this document detailing your acceptance of the impartiality of this service:

"Independence/Impartiality Policy

Every effort has been made to ensure that our ADR Official is impartial in their approach to management of player complaints and that their remuneration package is entirely independent of the outcome of any complaint procedure. Our ADR Official is financially compensated via a fixed salary that is not correlated with the outcome of any dispute.

This independence has been demonstrated repeatedly through rulings for and against both positively and negatively listed operators.

Regardless if you feel that ThePOGG.com's commercial relationship with an operator, where a commercial relationship exists, represents a conflict of interests or you have any other reason to feel that the ADR service we offer is not impartial, you should feel free to withdraw your complaint and seek help via a preferred service.

Submission of a complaint will be viewed as acceptance of ThePOGG's Official's independence and eligibility to manage your complaint, though does not affect your right to cancel your complaint at any time."

Given that you have once again indicated your lack of acceptance of the impartiality of this service via email, while also using offensive and derogatory language that belittles a vulnerable group, this provides a second ground for us to discontinue any further involvement in your claim.

At this point we will again direct you to your legal right to pursue this matter via the relevant court systems. We will also clarify that the involvement of this service at this stage is entirely at our discretion and any further rude, offensive, disrespectful or wilfully obstructive behaviour will result in us terminating any involvement in this claim.

To revert to your interpretation of the previous communication:

- Your claim indicates that you are contesting that a bet/s were settled incorrectly. That is not a responsible gambling issue and if you have been contacting the responsible gambling team to complain about this matter - as your complaints indicates - you have been contacting a non-relevant department. If you have other reasons to believe that you have made a reasonable self-exclusion request that has not been acted on, that is another issue and you would have to detail your reasons for believing this. For the sake of clarity, simply asking to close your account would not be considered a responsible gambling issue. The closure request would need to clearly indicate addiction issues before it would be considered a self-exclusion.

- We have at no point requested that you provide "the bet ID". We explicitly detailed the specific and basic information that we were requesting about the bet/s/event/s in question to allow us to independently confirm the outcome of the event/s in question and compare information on the event/s with the terms that were in place at the point of this wager. Karamba has not at this juncture been contacted as we are yet to confirm that you have made a claim that is viable or legitimate. Please provide the requested information.

Finally, we would again direct you to read our Complaint Guidance as your questions regarding the status of this complaint are clearly covered in this document which you have been directed to at multiple points. Your complaint, as with all complaints, is managed in a private status and will be published - with any personal information redacted - once the complaint management process has been concluded.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

This complaint dates back 5 months. No further than that. Sorry to disappoint you in your scramble to find reasons not to your job here. I see at the end of your message you state “please provide the requested information”. I have asked Karamba for an account statement. They would not provide it. I went to the regulator. They directed me to you.

I think the best thing, if you cannot help, is to report the matter to the police and to the EU authorities. I think the writing is in the wall in terms of the shitshow that passes for regulation here.

Hi roceark,

Final warning. If we receive any further communications from yourself in the combative/disrespectful tone shown in the above message, our involvement in this issue will be terminated. We have been clear about the terms of use of this service and if you are unwilling to agree to those term, you are free to pursue your claim as you see fit via the court systems.

To be clear - this is an entirely different issue to the issue you had with the same operator that you contacted us about in 2019? And, you are asserting that you have no recollection of any of the details of any of the bets in question?

Thanks,

ThePOGG

What is not clear about “this complaint dates back 5 months”?

Is it any wonder this proceeds at snail pace?

Can’t wait for the bit where you say too much time has passed.

I am asserting the Karamba under the terms of its license is required to maintain accurate records and to make then available to the customer. That is my “recollection”.

Again you are been asked to help solve this but seem more interested in asking me to confirm things that are very clear. So again why don’t you ask Karamba? Maybe give them a “final warning”?

Due to this individual's unwillingness to comply with this service's terms of use and their actively vexatious and obstructive behavior, we will be taking no further part in the representation of this claim.

The player is free to pursue their claim via the appropriate court systems.

No further posts will be approved on this thread.

ThePOGG