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Hi casinoplayer,

While we agree that this is an unfortunate situation, had you won while playing with these funds you would expect to be paid. Ultimately you are the one who is responsible for ensuring that you know which funds you are playing with and that you only wager funds that you are comfortable losing. You were aware due to the repeated failed withdrawals that there was some sort of issue here.

I can enquire for you regarding the reason that your withdrawal was declined, but we wouldn't pursue the return of losses in this situation.

Finally regarding the 'lock' - this is a responsible gambling feature intended to prevent players from reversing their own withdrawals. It would not prohibit the operator returning the withdrawal if there was some other issue with your account/the transaction.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi,

I would not have known if I had won that the funds were from a cancelled cashout and yes, I would have expected to have gotten paid.

The point here is that to this day, Videoslots have not explained why they kept cancelling the cashout and the call centre agents advised me that if I lock the cashout, it would not be reversed. 

I believe what transpired here was done deliberately and I do expect to be reimbursed the £5000 and would appreciate your help in this regard.

Thank you,
[EDIT]

Hi Casinoplayer,

I've been clear in my previous response. We will not contest losses based on you having played with your own funds. It is your responsibility to ensure you were happy to wager with the funds you were playing with. I appreciate that you may have mistakenly assumed that you hit a big win, but that mistake was yours and given the repeated failures of your previous withdrawals there was another readily apparent explanation.

And the call centre agent has advised you correctly - you will not be able to reverse your withdrawal. "Rejecting" a withdrawal is a different process to "reversing".

Thanks,

ThePOGG

So you're saying they can reverse withdrawals with no reason and then it's my loss because I did not see it? 

I am sorry, but this is most unfair. When I saw my balance, it was in the 4k range. If it was 5k, I would have thought it was the cancelled cashout.

They can't get away with this type of behaviour.

And, the call center agent advised that locking the cashout meant THEY would not reverse it. 

So, Videoslots can do this to everyone and it is the player's fault / responsibility? How is that acceptable / fair?

Hi Casinoplayer,

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Where you chose to re-initiate further play you are entering into an agreement that you wish to wager these funds. As stated twice already you are responsible for knowing where the funds come from. That includes checking the funds in the case where the may have been a win or could possibly be the withdrawal that has been bounced four times already.

If you choose to wager and you lose there is no grounds for us to contest your losses. This was your mistake.

And with regard to the withdrawal being "reverse[d]... with no reason" - that is not accurate. Simply because they have not provided the reason to you at the present time does not equate to there being no reason. 

As stated above, I'm happy to enquire with the operator regarding the reasons that the withdrawal was reversed if that's what you want, but we won't contest losses of this nature.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

I think you are missing the point. When I "initiated further play", I was playing with my money. Why should I keep track of my money? How can I be held responsible for their actions?

After 5 reversals, dozens of emails and 10 working days for their investigation to conclude, they could not and did not provide a reason. 

What is my next step here? A claim in the courts? I will be filing a formal complaint with the UKGC and MGA and Swedish Gaming Authority. This type of behaviour should not be condoned and I really thought you would agree.

I am a VIP at several casinos and this is the first time I have been treated like this.

I hope you will reconsider and assist in getting my funds returned to me. Please evaluate all the facts one more time and ask Videoslots to refund me what is rightfully mine.

Hi Casinoplayer,

I'm not going to keep going over this. The situation is very straightforward. Upon seeing a significant change in your balance you opted to conclude that you had hit a rare high win rather than that your withdrawal - which had been bounced multiple times already - had bounced again. You then started to wager with these funds based on your incorrect conclusion. That is not the operator's responsibility and where they cannot complete a withdrawal for any number of reasons, they are correct to return the funds to your account.

Based on your jurisdiction of residence the UKGC and Swedish Gaming Authority will take no interest in this case. They only take responsibility for their own citizens.

My understanding is that the ADR for Videoslots based on their MGA license is IBAS so you could choose to escalate your complaint to them. We cannot assist you further.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Sorry, but you're simply ignoring the facts. You say a rare high win, but on Napolean, Rise of an Empire, big wins are possible with even a small bet. 

I am not trying to cheat anyone. I feel that they had no right to reverse the withdrawal without explanation. I think they did it because I had won too much and simply hoped I would not notice when they did it.

I am disappointed that you won't even try and find out why.

Hi Casinoplayer,

I'm not ignoring anything. Yes, small bets can result in large wins, but any game where small bets can result in large payouts inevitably has to make these payouts an uncommon occurrence. In gambling mathematics terms the vast majority of games would be considered 'high variance'.

I've state multiple times that we are happy to enquire as to what the problem with your withdrawal was if that's what you would like, but we will not contest your losses.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Please see what you can find out from them. 

I have been gambling online since 1996. I understand variance, RTP, good days and bad days. 

In this case, they paid 27k and then started reversing the last 5k over and over. It makes no sense and without a proper explanation, it amounts to irresponsible and unethical behaviour and rightfully, they should return my funds. It's regrettable that you don't agree with this opinion.

Regards,
[EDIT]

Hi Casinoplayer,

I am sorry to hear of your disappointment, but it doesn't change the basic facts that you saw a significant shift in your balance and rather than confirming why there had been a shift chose to gamble with these funds. The responsibility for that error ultimately lies with you.

Had you approached us to ask us why your withdrawals were being rejected we could have acted on this at that juncture with a mind to ensuring your withdrawal was paid. But after the fact of your gambling and losing the funds there is nothing we can do to undo your own actions.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

A significant shift? I went from £1100 to £4000 playing £30 a spin. That is not significant in any way.

I had deposited £15000 and cashed out 27000 playing mostly bets of 100+

Have you contacted them to ask why they cancelled the withdrawal 5 times?

Hi Casinoplayer,

This is the last response we're going to offer to this aspect of your complaint.

You saw your balance had increased by thousands of pounds. You knew you had a withdrawal for thousands of pounds. You knew that withdrawal had been bounced four times before this point without having found out the reason for the return of funds. Having seen that balance shift common sense indicates that there is a significant chance that the increased balance isn't due to a win of ~130x you bet but rather could be the withdrawal bouncing again. One is less desirable but more likely than the other given the historical pattern that had already occurred. You should have checked to see whether this was actually winnings or your withdrawal bouncing again to establish where those funds had come from before you chose to gamble with them. It's that simple. 

Regarding your inquiry, you will receive a response as/when we have further information to convey to you.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Morning. Can I please get an update here.

Hi Casinoplayer,

Your withdrawals were rejected due to a technical issue the operator were experiencing with Neteller at the time of request. Chat records show that you were made aware of this issue and that you declined the offer to process the withdrawal via other methods and instead chose to resubmit a withdrawal via Neteller.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

I am sorry, but that is categorically untrue and also not the first time Videoslots have fabricated chat evidence to support their unethical practice.

You still have not explained why 2 locked withdrawals were cancelled and why no explanation was provided.

I find it rather disturbing that you have not once applied any logic or understanding to this entire matter and I have to ask how you are an approved ADR when you fail to consider the facts? 

Videoslots acted in bad faith here and you simply do not want to see it or do anything about it.

Hi Casinoplayer,

No. I'm simply not prepared to absolve you of all responsibility for your own actions with your own money.

Had you approached us at the point where you were struggling to get your withdrawal processed there may have been something we could have done for you. You didn't. You chose to play on. 

And you have been provided with an explanation regarding this issue by both ourselves and the operator - there was a technical issue with the payment method in question at the time you requested your withdrawal. We have no sound grounds to accuse Videoslots of "fabricating" anything and given that the chat records don't actually make any difference to the financial dispute - I was very clear from the outset that we will not dispute your losses on the grounds you are looking to contest them before ever contacting the operator - there is no incentive for the operator to fabricate anything. We were doing you a courtesy in enquiring why your withdrawals had been rejected, not pursuing your claim. A fact that had been made absolutely clear to you.

I think at this stage we can consider this issue closed.

ThePOGG

The player was having problems with bounced withdrawals and mistook a bounced withdrawal for auto-play winnings.

On 3 and 4 July 2019, I deposited £15,090 at Videoslots and withdrew £34,000 (multiple deposits and cashouts).
 
 There was a final cashout of £5,000 that they reversed. I contacted Live chat and they could not say why it was reversed.
 
 I cashed out and again it was reversed and again no reason provided. I cashed out a 3rd time and used the LOCK feature to secure the cashout. Yet, it was reversed and again no reason could be given.
 
 I cashed out a 4th time and again it was reversed with no reason available.
 
 I cashed out a 5th time and locked it again.
 
 At the time of the 5th LOCK, I received a £100 cash bonus which I turned into £600. I then went to play Napoleon, Rise of an Empire video slot and went up to £1,000. My way of playing is to do 50 spins on auto-play and then to increase or decrease if free spins are received or not.
 
 I increased my bet to £30 per spin and set it to 50 spins. I don't sit and watch the spins as I am working while I play. When I looked, my balance was just above £4,000. I thought I must have hit something decent (it is a volatile slot that can pay big).
 
 In any event, I continued playing on bets varying from £20 to £40 until the money was finished. (I was attempting to get the Free Spins feature as it had not triggered yet).
 
 Later on, I wanted to follow up on my cashout and discovered it had been reversed while I was playing. This is where the problem started as Videoslots refuses to credit the £5,000 back to me.
 
 They have also refused to explain why the cashout was reversed 5 times and why it was reversed after been locked twice.
 
 This is really underhanded, unethical behaviour and I would really appreciate your assistance in resolving this issue.
 
 Thank you,
 [EDIT]
 

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