21 Grand - Unfair rules of play

Hi katja76 – thanks for getting in contact.

Having reviewed the 21 Grand terms, I can see nothing that specifically defines that using a Martingale betting progression is prohibited and without specific definition the player cannot be expected to know what a “system play” is.

I’ll contact 21 Grand and see what I can find out.

ThePOGG

Hi katja76,

Apologies for the delays.

Due to some serious server issues we lost your complaint and I've been out of action for the last couple of weeks. As such I've had to repost your complaint - I'll email your new password to you shortly.

To update this issue, I'm due to speak with someone in the 21 Grand management team in the next few days.

I would like to emphasize at this point that the delays with this conversation have been entirely on my part and this would have been taken care of last week if I hadn't had urgent issues that had to be dealt with.

ThePOGG

Hi ThePOGG,

How are things going :)

If you need anything from me (to resend you mails, info etc....) please let me know. OK?

Thank you,

Katja

Hi katja76,

I've spoken to 21 Grand casino management today and I'm sorry to say that the result is not what I'd hoped for.

While 21 Grand have agreed to return your deposits and were very complimentary about your comportment and personality, they are refusing to pay the win as they feel that you've broken a clearly stipulated term by using the Martingale progression.

21 Grand have agreed to clarify the specific term - 6.3 - to ensure that the term 'system' is is altered to allow players to know exactly what types of behaviour is prohibited.

While I would positively comment on 21 Grand's management being as accommodating as they were about this discussion - their Casino Manager put aside nearly an hour today for this discussion - and I do feel that their willingness to listen and engage in improving their terms is highly encouraging, there is simply no way I can agree with this decision.

While there is some ambiguity about the Martingale progression being classed as a "system" - there is little doubt that it is one of best known betting systems - there is greater ambiguity in my mind as to what "system play" means. Simply put, flat betting could be considered a system. Increasing your bet every time a even number comes out could be considered a system. In fact literally any form of play could be considered a system.

Further to this, given 21 Grand's acceptance that the rule would benefit from clarification, I can't see any reasonable justification for asserting that the rule was clear enough to justify seizure of funds.

So while I would agree that it's not entirely unreasonable for the casino to suggest that the Martingale progression should be considered system play and I am pleased with 21 Grand's willingness to engage with the discussion and action constructive criticism, I'm not nearly convinced that there's ample justification for denying payment in this instance. As such this complaint will be closed and marked 'Found for the Player'.

ThePOGG

Hi ThePOGG,

Thank you for your fast response!

It is not great info. But it is not bet also :) If they return my deposit I will be satisfied.

I have checked the casino and they corrected my balance so it is the amount of my deposit: 101 EUR.

But now I am a little bit doubtful that they will return my money to clickandbuy account.

I tried to withdraw and the note which pops up on screen is:

»ClickandBuy Unavailable - Due to current withdrawal limits, this withdrawal method is not available at the moment.«

It is the same notice with every withdraw method.

Can you please ask them if I will be able to withdraw the money and when?

Can you please be so kind and do not close my complaint before I withdraw the money before they actually return me my deposits.

I really appreciate it.

Katja

Hi katja76,

No problem at all.

Could you confirm whether you require me to contact 21 Grand or have you started the withdrawal process already?

Thanks

ThePOGG

Hi ThePOGG,

I ask you if you contact the 21 Grand.

I tried to start withdraw process but it is impossible, when I choose Withdraw and then method (Neteller or Clickandbuy, or any other) I get the note in the screen: Due to current withdrawal limits, this withdrawal method is not available at the moment (I can send you print screen if you need one).

I have not contact them, because I think it is better not to get involve with them. I trust you can communicate with them better than me :).

Thank you,

Katja

Hey katja76,

I've emailed 21 Grand management and will let you know as soon as I've received a response.

Thanks

ThePOGG

I'm glad to say that katja76 has now confirmed that their deposits have now been returned.

As of this time, our terms and conditions monitoring service has not detected any changes to the discussed terms and conditions at 21 Grand.

ThePOGG