5PlusBet

VISA

Hi mecki - welcome to ThePOGG.com!

I'll contact the operator and see what we can find out for you.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi mecki,

We have concluded out discussion with 5PlusBet. While we can find no sound grounds for the operator's actions and the operator have been unable to provide any terms that would provide sufficient grounds for non-payment, the operator has elected not to discuss the matter further with this service.

As such we now recommend that you advance this issue to the operator's regulator. If you require further guidance on this matter we will be happy to assist.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi,
yes, I would like to receive further guidance on this matter. On December 14th, I have submitted my complaint to the regulator Antillephone at their offical address "complaints@gaminglicenses.com".

I kindly ask you to contact this regulator, as well, and inform them about how you feel about this issue.

Thank you so much
mecki

Hi mecki,

Has the regulator contacted you this week?

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hello ThePOGG,
no I have not heard from the regulator since December 18, 2020.

I am so sad about this experience. I was hoping that the regulators in Curacao will take my complaint seriously. It was very bad luck that you had once exposed my name and email address, and that 5plusbet made use of this mistake.

My two points/arguments are:
(1) An account closure at an MGA-licensed casino should have no impact on Curacao-licensed casinos because these are two completely different licensing systems.
(2) Having closed an account in April 2020 does not mean that I am excluded from online gaming for all of my life. My big win at 5plusbet was more than 6 months (!) after I had closed my account at CrazyFox. Most casinos reopen accounts after 6 months.

Please send another email to your contacts at the regulator, include my two arguments from above, and ask them to speak a fair ruling in this case soon.

Thank you,
[EDIT]

Hi mecki,

Sadly the regulator has already taken their final position on this matter. The fact that the regulator has not taken the time to communicate this to you directly likely give some insight into their position.

The regulator has marked their response to us about this matter as "confidential" however, given that they have not taken the time to provide information about your case to you, we can only conclude that they do not expect confidentiality to extend to passing the information on to you. As such please find the regulator's final response to this matter below:

[EDIT]

Effectively the regulator has concluded that the historic self-exclusion at other properties/licenses is not valid grounds for non-payment, but that your loss of access to your email address and the fact that you are a German citizen is. 

We cannot support the regulator's position on this matter at all. In fact, their position would appear to be contrary to even the most basic modicum of common sense. We have made this clear to the regulator to no avail. If the regulator's position is to be accepted, then any German citizen who has played with 5PlusBet - potentially at any Antillephone licensed property - should be entitled to a full refund of deposits.

In our opinion, your case is sadly consistent with the culture within the Curacao regulatory system and shortly we will publish a report on the Curacao regulatory system that will feature your case as one of the Case Studies.

Sorry we could not be of further help.

ThePOGG

Hello,
how can I proceed if I do not accept the regulator's position?? It is so obvious that this position does not withstand a thorough review. Here is why:

1) I have proof that I had asked 5plusbet to update my email address when my registered email address had become inactive. Yahoo does not recycle inactive email addresses anymore. So, the regulator's position ("my initial email address was wrong") is simply not true. My registered email address must have been a correct and active address, because 5plusbet requires email verification upon registration.

2) 5plusbet let me deposit and play a total of 10,000 Euro without interfering although I had registered from Germany. Accepting deposits and accepting game play for several days, and then voiding a big win in the end is not what a licensed casino should be doing. Some casinos do restrict players from certain countries during the registration process. 5plusbet did not restrict me during the registration process, and they also did not close my account in the following days until I won big.

I would like to contact the authority which is superior to the regulator "Antillephone". Please assist me in finding the email address of that superior authority. I believe that even the Minister of Justice of Curacao should be informed what unfair rulings are spoken here.

I agree with you that either all Curacao licensed casinos must refund all German players (which would be billions of dollars), or that Antillephone should reconsider their decision in my case.

By the way: Can you please send your report to the Minister of Justice of Curacao, too?

Thank you
mecki

Hello Duncan,
I am in deep trouble now. The regulator’s ruling that you (why didn’t the regulator send it to me, too?) sent to me is unfair. I am indeed struggling again. My gambling addiction breaks through again.

There is more to this issue! Let me share with you what happened since I had self-excluded from Crazy Fox in spring 2020: After that I had completed a gambling therapy. The most important tool that I learned during this therapy was setting limits and closing accounts permanently if necessary. This therapy can only be successful if regulators regulate casinos in a fair fashion.

In September 2020 I lost a total of 27,018.18 Euro at betandyou.com (also licensed by Antillephone).

In November 2020, I lost a total of 4,899.70 Euro at 20bet.com (also licensed by Antillephone).

In November 2020, I won a total of 64,947 Euro at 5plusbet.com but my win was voided according to your email because my email address had become inactive at the time when I requested my withdrawal, and because I am a German citizen. I have proof that I had requested my email to be updated, but my request was turned down by the operator. It should always be possible to change one’s email address because we sometimes do choose a new email provider. It is simply not true that an inactive email address is a “wrong email address“ as the regulator phrases it in the email sent to you. As you found out yourself, 5plusbet REQUIRES email verification during the registration process. So, this fact already proves that my original email address was indeed an active address when I had registered my 5plusbet account. Please insist on this fact!!

In December 2020, I lost a total of 7,789.87 Euro at bsensation.com (also licensed by Antillephone) AFTER I had permanently closed my account.

Now, after Antillephone voided my big win at 5plusbet, I searched through all my saved emails and chats. And I found proofs …
1) that I had previously self-excluded from the operator Pelican Entertainment B.V (that runs Betandyou) due to a gambling issue in the casino Melbet, which belongs to the same operator as Betandyou.
2) that I had previously self-excluded from the operator TechSolutions Group N.V. (that runs 20bet) due to a gambling issue in the casino 22bet, which belongs to the same operator as 20bet.
3) and that I had clearly requested a permanent account closure at Bsensation before losing 7,789.87 Euro.

In my opinion, to be fair, Antillephone should now EITHER reconsider their ruling in the 5plusbet case OR they should ask Betandyou, 20bet, and Bsensation to refund my losses. It would be completely unfair, if my one big win is voided at one Antillephone-licensed casino, while all of my losses at the three other Antillephone-licensed casinos stand. I had registered an ACTIVE email address in all cases, and I had played as a GERMAN citizen in all cases, and all casinos are licensed by the SAME regulator.

I was safely back on my way to Responsible Gaming, but now the regulator’s ruling shattered all of my efforts and all of my therapy.

Duncan, I do need your assistance here because the ruling regarding 5plusbet was sent to you as “confidential“. Until today, I do not know officially that Antillephone has turned down my complaint and why it has been turned down!

Please forward a copy of this post to your contacts at Antillephone and please also to other officials in Curacao and advise me how to proceed. You may also want to add it to your report. We are talking about a two-years income (!) for me here. I agree to completely stop gambling forever if I am EITHER entitled to receive my win at 5plusbet OR if I am entitled for refunds at Betandyou, 20bet, and Bsensation.

I can provide all the proofs regarding Betandyou, 20bet, and Bsensation once you ask me to do so.

Thank you
mecki

Hi mecki,

Sadly there is nothing further we can do for you.

I entirely agree with you that the regulator's rulings on this matter have been based on entirely invalid grounds. But they are also in a position that is effectively unchallengable and if their position is that they will support the operator on this matter there is very little that can be done about it.

To my knowledge, there is no 'higher authority' to escalate this matter to. Sadly the ruling you've received is all too consistent with the player experiences we have seen when dealing with the Curacao-based operators. To date the Curacao government has shown no interest in intervening in the affairs of the Master License holders, meaning that a player's recourse beyond the intervention of the Master License holders is only to be found via the Curacao court systems. Being entirely earnest, it would take a brave player to attempt court action and we've certainly been aware of none who have done so successfully. 

I would also caution you that within the Curacao licensing system, self-exclusions will only ever apply to the property you request them at. They do not propagate to other properties on the same license. There are a number of Curacao operators that do transfer self-exclusion to other properties on the license, however we have only ever seen this done in situations where it benefitted the operator (i.e. as grounds to deny payment), and are aware of no cases where this was done pre-emptively to protect a player or refund losses.

All I can suggest to you at this stage is that your reach out to the agencies that previously assisted you with your issues and seek help again.

You may find our free Responsible Gambling app <a href="https://betblocker.org/" rel="nofollow ugc">BetBlocker</a> useful. It allows users to restrict their internet capable devices from accessing over 12k gambling operator websites for between 24 hours and 5 years.

Sorry we could not be of more help!

ThePOGG

Hello ThePOGG,
as I said: I will not give in. We are talking about too much money here.

It is good to hear that the regulator does not support "the reasoning of Responsible Gaming for account closure". So, we can focus on claims no. 1 and 3. I would like to post a report on three well-known web forums (Askgamblers, Casinomeister, Casinoguru) with this headline: CURACAO REGULATOR ENCOURAGES 5PLUSBET TO ACCEPT GERMAN PLAYERS AND VOID THEIR NET WINNINGS.

Duncan, you told me that you will also write a report and include my issue. So, I assume that you are also interested in letting the gaming industry know how unfair this Curacao regulator is. Can we please join up in doing so??

Regarding claim no. 1 (German residency):
I saved all chats and emails that I had with 5plusbet, and also all screenshots that I had made. So, we have plenty of proofs. I just even found a confirmation that 5plusbet had VERIFIED my account by verifying my passport. SO, 5PLUSBET WAS WELL AWARE THAT I WAS PLAYING FROM GERMANY, AND STILL THOUGH, THEY DID NOT BLOCK MY ACCOUNT! I will send this proof to you through my email address because I cannot upload it here.

Regarding claim no. 2 (my email address):
5plusbet requires email verification during the registration process, which actually proves that my registered email address was an active address and not a "wrong address" as 5plusbet and the regulator (!) phrase it. It seems to me that the regulator is not thoroughly questioning the claims made by the casino operator. I will send another proof to you by email: In this proof, YAHOO confirmed to me by email that they are not able to reopen my inactivated email address.

Please advise me how to proceed!

Thank you
[EDIT]

Hello ThePOGG,
I put you in Cc: in my recent emails to the regulator Antillephone. My new strong point is: I have proof that 5plusbet had fully verified my account and my German passport! So, they were well aware of my German residency, but still though they let me continue to deposit, play and lose almost 10k Euro. And only after my big win they came up with one weak claim after another of how to void that win. They could have blocked my account during the registration from Germany or after verifying my German passport, at the very latest!

Please confirm that you are still watching this case and willing to assist if necessary. I might still need your help.

Thank you
[EDIT]

5PlusBet have refused to pay this player on what are, in our professional opinion, illegitimate grounds. Their regulator - Antillephone - has chosen to support non-payment.

On November 3rd, 2020, I decided to play at www.5plusbet.com. I logged into my 5plusbet account which I had registered some time ago, but never used so far. I deposited a total of 10,100 Euro via JETON into this account. I played Live Blackjack and slots and did not accept any bonus offer.
 
 I currently have 64,947 Euro in my account, but 5plusbet locked my account on November 10th, 2020, and refuses to pay me. They wrote this email to me: “Dear …, Hello!
 1. We inform you that for now online gambling activities in Germany are allowed under local conditions in this state only: Schleswig-Holstein. Please pay attention to the clause 1.1.3 section b completely, not only described part of it by us to avoid any misunderstanding.
 2. We inform you that in accordance with the clause 1.1.3 section F which states that the players are not allowed to use the Website in these cases: if the client is classified as a compulsive problem gambler, and/or is an included person (whether voluntarily or involuntarily) on any register or database of excluded players.
 According to our information the self exclusion was requested by you in the following casino: Crazy Fox, for the following period: forever. Refer this page please: https://thepogg.com/complaint/…
 3. You have provided us with the invalid email. Which is prohibited in accordance with the clause 23.4.“
 
 None of these arguments justify that my winnings are voided. Here is why:
 
 1. I was able to register my 5plusbet account with the country “Germany”. So, 5plusbet is well aware that I am from Germany. And yet, they accepted my deposits and my play. If 5plusbet really wanted to keep German players away from their website, they could easily do so by putting Germany on their list of restricted countries (as some other websites do). They could also restrict certain German states during the registration process. But neither Germany nor any of its states is mentioned in the T&amp;Cs of 5plusbet. It is not acceptable to collect deposits from German players and then RETROACTIVELY—in case of a big win—refuse to pay winnings by claiming that playing from some German states would be restricted. I am sure that the regulators in Curacao are well aware that players from all over Germany do play in many casinos under their license. It wouldn’t be fair to tolerate the game play of all THESE PLAYERS on the one hand, but at the same time let 5plusbet void MY WINNNGS on the other hand. This would be a double play that effectively allows the operator to free roll German players by refusing to pay any significant winner.
 
 2. Clause 1.1.3 section F of their T&amp;Cs does not apply to me. It was a mistake by ThePOGG to expose my name. I have at times felt that my gambling was problematic, and so I used responsible gambling tools to help me manage my access to gambling responsibly. I had made use of such a responsible gambling tool at Crazyfox, but that does not classify me as a compulsive gambler. I just limited my play at this operator. Someone who uses a responsible gambling tool is not automatically a compulsive gambler. Responsible gambling tools have been established to assist players in NOT becoming compulsive gamblers. Also, a self-exclusion on an entirely different licensing system has no bearing what-so-ever on 5plusbet.
 
 3. Finally, 5plusbet accuses me of having provided a false email address. This is not true, and I have substantial proof for that: When I had registered my 5plusbet account some time ago, I had received an activation link. Without clicking on this link, my 5plusbet account would never have been activated! My player’s account became active ONLY AFTER I clicked on the activation link that was sent to me by email. But here is the only thing that I must admit: I have no access anymore to that email address. So, most likely, all emails that 5plusbet sent to me in the last week were returned to them. And that is why 5plusbet believes that I had provided an invalid email address. But the truth is: As I wrote in the beginning of this complaint, I had registered my 5plusbet account some time ago, but I had never played with it until November 3rd, 2020. When I deposited on November 3rd, my email address had become inactive. But that is—under no circumstances—a reason to void my winnings, because that email address was active upon registration.
 
 I would like to turn the tables here: When I became aware that my registered email address had become inactive, IT WAS ME who asked 5plusbet to change that address to an active email address, so that I could receive their emails. But the chat operator refused to do so for my 5plusbet account. I have saved all chats that I had with 5plusbet including this one. My point is: Players do sometimes change their email address (for example, because of too many spam mails as in my case) or their postal address. This is not a crime! A player must be given the chance to change his email address or his postal address. So: If 5plusbet accuses me of having an inactive email address in my account, then I accuse 5plusbet of not having changed this address to an active address upon my request.
 
 Of course, I meanwhile tried to re-activate my email address, but Yahoo informed me that they do not recycle email addresses anymore when they become inactive. I have proof that my email address has become inactive.
 
 In summary, the situation is very clear: By adding up several weak claims, 5plusbet is actually proving itself how desperately they are looking for one claim to void my winnings retroactively. This is not what fair operators should be doing. Adding up several weak claims does not make a strong claim. Accepting huge deposits and RETROACTIVELY voiding gaming play by far-fetched claims has never been acceptable.
 
 We must always remember: The business model of a casino is to offer fair gambling, to make money from the odds that are always in favor of the casino, but also to pay out money in the rare event that a player wins!! It is the primary job of any regulator to regulate a casino if it tries to make additional money from not paying its rare winners.

5plusbet - voids 64,947 Euro payment retroactively

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