BetDNA - PLEASE HELP!

Hi wspheat22 - welcome to ThePOGG.com!

While I appreciate your efforts to keep your complaint brief, with a complaint of this nature it's going to be necessary for me to have as much information as possible. So I'd ask you to make the full details of your complaint clear here and email any supporting screenshots to [email protected]

I'd also stress in advance that BetDNA are part of a group that are Blacklisted at ThePOGG as they have been repeatedly caught offering counterfeit casino games. As such there is a diminished chance of us getting a response from this group. I'm more than happy to try, but I want you to have realistic expectations from the start.

Finally, there is no donation necessary. Our complaint service is free to players ;)

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi wspheat22,

I've had a chance to read through your email.

Firstly, regarding the suspension of your account. As long as the balance has been refunded to you there's nothing I can do about getting your account re-opened. As a private business BetDNA have the right to refuse any customer for any reason that's non-discriminatory. It sounds to me like they feel you're unlikely to be a profitable customer for them.

If they have not returned your balance that would obviously be an issue that I'd want to raise with them.

With regard to the incorrectly graded wagers - before I could do anything about that I'd want to have details of EXACTLY which wagers have been incorrectly graded and were not addressed by [REMOVE]Steve[REMOVE]. This would need to include screenshots.

Likewise, the changing lines, I would need to have a list of bets with screenshots showing your wager accepted with the line and subsequently a different line on the same bet ID.

This type of complaint is obviously very serious and as such I need to have a very detailed and logically laid out report to take to the operator as we're essentially talking about cheating here.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi wspheat22,

I appreciate that you sent some screen shots over with your previous email, but your accusing an operator of flat out cheating - changing wagers after you placed them. This is a very serious accusation. The degree of seriousness requires absolute proof before I go to the operator.

I need you to compile a case file with an accurate time line, detailing step at a time the wagers that were incorrectly marked as losses and never paid and both before and after shots of bets you've placed where the line was change after you placed the bet. This needs to be a blow by blow account of the issue and reference the correct screenshot at the correct place.

Given that this amounts to an accusation of illegal activity it cannot be undertaken lightly. I appreciate that this is cumbersome, but it is absolutely necessary to validate this type of accusation.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi wspheat22 - thanks for your email.

If there are no outstanding incorrectly graded wagers this part of the complaint is an interesting side note but not directly relevant to the complaint.

With regard to bet 36430 - while I can see that there's been a change in the odds, I also see that in the latter screenshot the bet has a status of 'Void'. As such this probably isn't a good example to use.

As to bet 36389 - you placed a bet on the Chicago Cubs not to lose by more than 1.5 (a +1.5 line) on the 2nd of July. This appears to have been changed to the Cubs having to win by more than 1.5 (a line of -1.5). Given that the final score was was 10-2 to the Mets, if the line was changed it wouldn't have impacted the outcome of your bet. As such this isn't a great example to use.

Bet 36462 - You were betting on the Cleveland Indians not to lose by more than 4 (a line of +4) and that appears to have been changed to the Cleveland Indians having to win by more than 4 (a line of -4). The results of the game were 17-1 to the Toronto Blue Jays. Again, if the line has been changed it hasn't impacted the result of the bet.

Without an example where the changed line would have actually impacted the payout there's not a lot to contest here. The sportsbook with just say that this is a technical display issue and brush it off as it hasn't had any direct impact on your balance.

So finally, looking at the pending bets, all three are on tennis.

Bet 36654 - this was an Over 24.5 bet on the Xi Qi vs Kuam Yi Lee match. The results of this match were 6-1 3-6 2-6, so the total number of games played was 24, less than the required total of 25 to win.

Bet 36651 - this was a point spread bet that Namigata/Sema would win and take a total of 4 or more games across the match than Okuno/Zhang. The results of this match was 6-4 3-6 10-5. So Namigata/Sema won the match and took a total of 19 games to 15. This bet does appear to have won.

Bet 36646 - this was an Over 22.5 bet on the Xi Qi vs Kuam Yi Lee match (the same match as bet 36654. The results of this match were 6-1 3-6 2-6, so the total number of games played was 24. This bet also appears to have won.

Have you contacted your rep at BetDNA to ask why the two winning bets are still listed as Pending rather than having been paid?

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi wspheat22,

Thanks for your email but I'm afraid you've misunderstood my point.

You're jumping to the conclusion that someone must have gone into your account and changed the lines. That is a possibility. However, it's also perfectly plausible that a technical/programming error is causing either line changes under specific circumstances or a graphical issue that has no impact on the bets placed.

There's no purpose in taking this too the operator without evidence that this has actually had some impact on wagers. If I approach them with what you've brought in I can effectively guarantee that they're going to state that this is just a graphical glitch that's had no impact on players.

In this type of situation there needs to be incentive to change the wagers. As things currently stand you've provided screen shots of the bet you placed and then another screen shot after the bet is resolved where the line changes polarity (+ to - or vice versa). Unless we have an example where the change actually impacted the outcome of the bet (causing a winning bet to lose) or showing the bet placed being changed to a poorer line BEFORE the event takes place all that results from confronting the operator with what you've provided is a stock response with no further bases on which I can challenge their explanation.

As to your balance - that issue comes down to the explanation that the operator offers for the seizure of funds and whether any terms have been broken. What I can't do is challenge the decision based on an accusation of cheating that isn't water tight.

I'll contact BetDNA and see what they have to say.

ThePOGG

Hi wspheat22,

In response to your latest email, you can find the response to your previous email above.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

thePogg,

I guess all I can do is wait. It's pretty unfair that these people can say "oh you used some software. We aren't going to pay you." Please also note that betDNA told me they would "refund my deposit" which they haven't done, nor will respond to any of my emails anymore. Clearly, these guys are simply avoiding paying me.

thePogg,

Were you able to contact them?

Hi wspheat22,

Unfortunately all of our efforts to contact this operator have fallen on deaf ears. We haven't even received a basic acknowledgement of our communications.

To give some insight into the behaviour of this group, they have previously been responsive to some complaints. However they made very clear that they sere doing so in an effort to be removed from our Blacklist. Since the point that we informed them that resolving complaints would not result in removal from our Blacklist - they are Blacklisted due to getting caught offering counterfeit games - they've taken the attitude of 'what's in it for us then?'. As such it's not surprising that they're no longer responding to complaints.

My current intention would be to document this issue in an article and distribute a press release to various quality sources. Fundamentally your issue does highlight a very worrying situation, regardless of whether this is accidental or intentional and given the history of this group it should be documented to warn other players of the potential issues. Before doing so I wanted to confirm with you that you are happy for the screen shots you provided to be published? All personal information will be removed before doing so.

Alongside serving to warn other players, my hope would be that increased exposure for your situation may result in the operator addressing the complaint directly.

It would also be great if you could confirm your country of residence. The screenshots seem to indicate that you are within the UK. If that's the case I need to alert the UKGC to this operator.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi wspheat22,

I'm holding off till next Monday to publish to hear from you. If I haven't heard from you by then I'll ensure that all sensitive information (bet size, account number, bet results, specific bets placed) other than for the specific bets where the lines have changed.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi wspheat22,

I've now had a very extended conversation with BetDNA. As you'll already be aware I have reviewed your play history. Specifically of interest was one session of play where you placed at least one bet every hour for a 36 hour period. While this isn't entirely impossible it is highly unlikely for a player who isn't either a gambling addict or a smart player with a time sensitive opportunity. You fall in to neither of these categories. As such I personally feel it's very likely that you used some form of automated software to detect weak lines and place bets for you. Regardless, as this isn't entirely impossible to achieve as a human personal opinion on the matter is somewhat moot.

However, further examination of the bonuses you claimed have raised other issues. The first issue raised by BetDNA is the following term:

Redeeming 3 or more free chips without a deposit. Free Chips are a promotion to encourage deposits. Should any player take 3 or more free chips prior to making a deposit, the bonus and winnings will be forfeited and the account closed.

Having reviewed your account history I can see that 3 NDB were claimed in a row. The term in place is meant to prohibit this - on this much I agree with the operator - but the term only specifically states that you cannot claim 3 NDBs "prior" to a deposit. As you had made a deposit of the welcome bonus before going on to claim 3 NDBs in a row this term is a questionable justification for non-payment and as such has been discounted. It should be noted that the term has now been updated to reflect it's intent.

The second issue relates to the 3rd NDB you claimed - specifically promotion code BASKET. It came with the following term:

"

f) To be eligible for a payout the player must make a minimum deposit of $100 within 30 days of accepting the $100 FP promotion.

g) Player must complete a 5x rollover once minimum deposit is made (Real Money Converted + $100 Min Deposit x 5) before requesting a withdrawal.

h) Once player has met both rollover levels, player must provide copy of their ID to verify all the information on his / her BetDNA account is valid.

i) Maximum real money winnings allowed for this promotion is $200."

The two important terms in the above are in bold. The first indicates that you have to have deposited $100 within 30 days of receiving the promotion to qualify to withdraw anything, something that BetDNA state you haven't done. However, as you were prevented from doing this as your account was locked this has also been discounted.

Which leaves us with term i) restricting the maximum withdrawal from the promotion to $200. You've already had $100 returned (your deposit) and after discussion BetDNA have agreed to pay the remaining $100.

This doesn't address the various software issues you encountered, I'll make an update to our published article regarding those over the coming days, but given that I feel you're already on questionable ground due to your playing pattern and that it's also very questionable whether the term restricting claiming 3 or more NDBs in a row would have been interpreted in the way I have, I think this is the most positive possible outcome you could have received based on the bonuses you claimed.

Thank,

ThePOGG