BetPhoenix - Bonus Terms Violation

Hi Kbec980915 - welcome to ThePOGG.com.

I'm going to start with the bad news - I have recently been talking to a representative of the Bet Phoenix group when they were trying to get improved placement with ThePOGG.com. Unfortunately this resulted in their being moved to our Blacklist not due to their behaviour but due to a recent switch of software provider to Amigotechs software. Amigotechs software has been on our Blacklist for a long time due to multiple instances of their games malfunctioning that leaves us unconvinced about the platform integrity. As such 1) I'm not likely to be on good terms with this group and 2) there is absolutely nothing I can say about this group that would be any more damaging than Blacklisting them and as removing them from the Blacklist is not a possibility there's no incentive what-so-ever for Bet Phoenix to cooperate with me.

Over and above this, your complaint is a very old one - i.e. this would have been before Bet Phoneix shifted software providers. I've been told that the shift in software was due to the company being unhappy with Rival and as such I can't imagine that it's been a harmonious and it becomes likely that they will no longer have access to important information relevant to the issue.

The bottom line here is that this group is almost certainly going to be hostile towards this site and probably don't have access to the necessary information even if they were inclined to help.

I am happy to take a look but I have no expectations of a positive outcome.

To answer the question you asked about documentation and the free chips, that's nothing unusual. All accounts will be required to provide ID before any withdrawal is sent for processing, but the analysis of play won't take place until before the withdrawal is actually approved. Withdrawals won't be sent for approval until after ID has been received.

As I stated above, BetPhoenix have changed software since your play and as such it doesn't surprise me at all that they can't find your account. This factor in itself likely makes the complaint impossible to do anything about.

From what I can pick out this really boils down to whether or not you actually had a free chip in your account at the time of your play? Obviously a free chip is going to carry a max cash out restriction which means the majority of your winnings would be considered void? Is that what you feel the heart of the issue is?

If you do want me to talk to BetPhoenix I will need you to provide me with the username and email address you used at BetPhoenix so that we can try to find your account.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

P.S. It would also be handy if I could review whatever CasinoMeister and the OSGA communicated to you.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

I really would like you to look into it for me. I had a copy of all of the transactions and I don't have them anymore because I thought it was hopeless. If there was a way I could recover them from my computer I would but I don't know how to do that. I was playing slot tournaments and I was enrolled in a lot of them at the time and I was placing in several of them too. If they did sneak a free chip in there while I was playing those, they probably saw that I was going to win some money so they did that so they wouldn't have to pay me because the slot tournaments had pots of like 400.00, 300.00, 200.00 etc. I had won several of them before and I enter into as many as I could back then. My email address is [EDIT] and username is [EDIT]. Please let me know if you can help me recover those files from my computer. Thank you so much.

Hi Kbec980915,

I've got to be honest with you and say that I do consider this complaint hopeless. I'm not trying to be mean here, but this is a situation where an incident occurred 4 years ago where you claim you've not been paid, but don't have any supporting evidence, against a group that are on our Blacklist and that I can say without speaking to them that their software platform has changed recently and they are unlikely to have player information from pre-change days. What's going to happen is that if I hear back from them they're going to say that they can't locate your account and as such can't provide any information. At which point I've got the player making a very vague complaint and the casino unable to fill in any information - essentially I have nothing with which to base any discussion on.

As I said I'll approach Bet Phoenix, but I think the chances of this complaint resolving anything are less than negligible.

As to recovering deleted files from your computer, I'm afraid I'm not a computer technician and would have as little idea how to do that as you. I do suspect that anyone that could help you do that would be likely to charge a substantial fee for doing so though.

Forward me on anything you can retrieve from CasinoMeister and I'll see what I can find out.

Sorry I can't be of more help and I'll let you know if I hear anything from Bet Phoenix.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

I probably know somebody who can help me retrieve the files. I thought it was a hopeless situation, but from what I have read about them they are not a reliable casino. If I can find the files, do you think there may be a chance? If not I won't waste my time.

Hi Kbec980915,

I've received your email containing your last communication with the OSGA.

From what I can pick out the OSGA felt that the issue was too long past to be able to resolve and they were dealing with it 2 years ago! More than this though, the email specifically states that both the OSGA and CasinoMeister felt that Bet Phoenix were in the right after reviewing your account history.

To give what details I can based on the account information the OSGA email details, you played your balance down to zero and sometime within a day of your balance reaching zero a $20 free chip was added to your account. By the terms that Bet Phoenix had in place at the time this happened there was a win restriction of 2x on free chips and a restriction from using them in casino tournaments.

Based on the information I have seen I would have to concur with the OSGA conclusion. While I do agree that you should have received notification that a free chip had been added to your account, I don't feel it's unreasonable given the circumstances to expect you to have noticed the additional funds. Had the free chip been added to your account during your play it could certainly go unnoticed with the regularly shifting balance meter, but from the information I have your balance appears to have reached zero - at which point you presumably stopped playing - then the next time you logged in the balance would have read $20. Given that you stopped playing because your balance reached zero, it does seem that upon finding a balance in your account the next time you logged in you should have noticed that you now had playable funds and made enquiries prior to starting to play.

And while I'd agree that if free chips are not allowed to be used in tournaments the software should automatically restrict their use, this is similar to max bet restrictions; while I strongly advocate software that automatically restricts players from breaking these rules and actively advocate that casinos should implement these practices, they are only examples of good practice and the presence or lack of such features does not alter in any way the players responsibility to be familiar with any bonus they accept.

So the long and short of it is that had I been reviewing this issue 4 years ago when the it occurred I would have supported Bet Phoenix's removal of winnings but encouraged them to consider offering some form of recompense for failing to take specific action to alert you to the free chip in your account. 4 years and a software change down the line there's zero chance of that happening. I suspect you've long since moved on from playing with this group and doubt that you'd be enticed back for the promise of a complementary bonus so the casino no longer has any incentive to even attempt to keep you happy.

The only caveat I would add to the above assessment is that it's based in incomplete/3rd hand information. I am drawing the information from a conversation you had with someone else regarding the problem and as such I appreciate that I may have failed to accurately interpret some of the subtleties of the situation. If so I'd welcome clarification.

ThePOGG