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Guts - banned account

Ruling

Found for the Casino - The Malta Gaming Authority have reviewed this case and upheld the operator's position that a bot has been used in contravention of terms of use.

Read our Guts Casino Review.

Player's Complaint

Dear Pogg,

After i contacted Malta Gaming Authority, they told me that I have to file my complaint here.

Guts banned for allegedly using artifical intelligence during playing poker. Here is the letter i got: [EDIT]

I categorically deny this and I truly believe of my innocence. I unsuccesfully tried to get in touch with Microgaming Poker Network that is why I am writing this formal letter.

On public poker forums I listed few facts why it's absurd from the site to say such a serious crime about me: [EDIT]

I never had any problem with any operator and I am currently active player on sites who have a world class security team like PokerStars and Partypoker.

In this matter I am willing to co-operate fully to proove my innocence. It was hard for me to say anything so far because Microgaming did not tell me exactly what I am accused of.

I would like to get to know what was the exact reason for banning me. I beleive that's their detection system may detected a running program in my computer harmful which had nothing to do with Artifical Intelligence in reality.

I would like to get involved in this investigation (many other poker sites do before they act such an extreme way). I'm willing to record my sessions which would show that my playing pattern is the same as it would be without a camera, and i do not need any artifical intelligence to make decision for me.

If you need any further information/attachment I am more than happy to share with you as I do not have anything to hide.

Yours sincerely,

[EDIT]

Read the casino review

17 Responses

ThePOGG
December 11, 2019

Hi fleaa - welcome to ThePOGG.com!

As we are the ADR for the MT Secure Trade license under the Malta Gaming Authority license there is certain information we have to provide you now.

You can find all the relevant information about this service here – http://thepogg.com/terms-of-use/ and the terms of use for our complaint service here - https://thepogg.com/terms-of-use-for-dispute-resolution-service/

To summarise.

– Use of this service does not preclude your seeking redress through court proceedings .

– This service is free to use for both the complainant and operator.

– At any point during the procedure the submitting party retains the right to withdraw their complaint. This does not preclude our right to continue the discussion with the involved operator of general issues related to the complaint (i.e. insufficiently clear terms and conditions).

– You are not obliged to obtain independent or legal advice or representation, though you may choose to do so.

If you have any questions about the above, let me know.

Before we go any further, two issues need to be clarified:

- Firstly, you say you believe that you believe that the Microgaming system may have detected some other software running on your system that is not of an "Artificial Intelligence" nature. Specifically what software do you think they may have detected?

- Secondly, while we appreciate the offer of a recording, demonstrating that you can play in a specific manner does not prove that you were not using an automated software in previous sessions. Bots can be used for a number of reasons and not all of them relate to improving playing strategy.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

fleaa
December 11, 2019

3 program were connected to the Microgaming client:

-Pokertracker 4

- MPN Tools

- StackAndTile

The videorecord is well known procedure among the world best online poker sites. No serious sites banned players without asking a recording first.

I have 10 years of clean history of every pokersite I play, I don't need any AI to help me play.

Also i do not know how well you aware of the pokerbots, but their volume is incredible high. I played on avarage 9 games daily. 1 game usually lasts 3-4 minutes, so i play less than an hour in total.

"does not prove that you were not using an automated software"

Why do i have to proove something which i did not do?

ThePOGG
December 13, 2019

Hi fleaa,

I'm sorry, but a recording of you playing a session of poker only proves that you played that session of poker. It does not demonstrate that you played any session other than the one that you recorded.

As to "prov[ing] something which [you] did not do", we have not asked you to prove anything at this point. You were putting this suggestion forward as a means of demonstrating that you were not using a bot. I have simply pointed out that a recording of this nature does not achieve this end.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

fleaa
January 9, 2020

Hello!

I wasn't sure if i need to provide any other information since i did not hear from you for a quite long time. Do you need an information? Again I am willing to cooperate fully in this matter.

Thank you in advance

fleaa
January 20, 2020

Dear Pogg,

Havent heard from you more than a month, could you please update me breefly how the case is going please?

ThePOGG
January 24, 2020

Hi fleaa,

We are still reviewing your issue and will revert to you at the appropriate juncture.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

fleaa
February 25, 2020

Dear Pogg,

Another month passed, and more than a 3 month i do not know anything about my case.

As i told you before, I am willing to co-operate fully in this investigation.

Could you briefly update me on this case?

Microgaming Poker Network is closing down in few months. What happens when this case is still unresolved but they are closed already?

ThePOGG
February 28, 2020

Hi fleaa,

The MPN have refused to share the required evidence with either the operator or ourselves. As such this matter has been escalated to the regulator. We will revert to you when the regulator has provided appropriate feedback to us.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

fleaa
March 2, 2020

Thank you, that was a useful update. Thank you for taking care of my case.

fleaa
March 2, 2020

One more important question, if you could answer it, i would be so happy.

MPN is clearly mark the time with this case. They are going to close in May. What happens when they refuse the realease the evidence (which they dont have) and simply close their service and steal my money. Can we continue to fight after their closure on May?

ThePOGG
March 10, 2020

Hi fleaa,

The MPN have not 'refused to release the evidence'. They have refused to release it to us, stating that they will only provide this to the regulator.

The status of the MPN makes no difference to this discussion. Microgaming will continue to operator and hold an MGA license after May.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

fleaa
March 23, 2020

Do you think i should get in touch with the regulator and speak with them? Can you still represent my case? Seems like you wont see anything more than me. If you can not defend me, could you please tell me who i can turn into? I do not even know my regulator.

ThePOGG
March 27, 2020

Hi fleaa,

You can contact the regulator if you wish, but we are still directly communicating with the MGA about the issue.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

fleaa
April 29, 2020

Dear POGG,

How is my case going? Another month passed, it is now 6 months, and my case does not even started.

At this point I am devistated, can't even imagine if it's zero progess so far, how long does it going to take?

Please, if you could be kind just answer few of my question I would be already greateful.

1. If you get the "evidence" that they claim to have: do you have in your team a member who deeply understand online poker especially HYPER-heads-up sit and go format (which i play)? Does this person have a deep knowledge about Game theory Optimal play (which they accused me of).

If this person going to see this evidence, what kind of question is he/she going to ask to defend me? I am just afraid because only few online poker sites have these kind of people, who are actually able to see the difference in these games. And i am afraid that you will just blindly accept whatever you will see.

2. After 6 months of frurstration, I am thinking about to get a legal help.

Could you tell me which company/person should I take legal action against? What is the exact name, etc how can i reach them out?

3. If i am willing to take a legal step, can you tell me how is that working? I live in Hungary and i am not sure what i should do, do I have to go to abrod for trials, etc?

ThePOGG
May 1, 2020

Hi fleaa,

The MGA have informed us that they have reviewed the evidence provided by the MPN and are upholding the operator's decision. As an ADR acting on behalf of the regulator we will be adhering to their ruling.

ThePOGG

fleaa
May 4, 2020

Hello Pogg,

This is a bit frustrating, in the past 6 months, you helped me nothing, did not see any of the evidence, yet you accepted everything which was against me, so i do not see how you protected me in this case.

I'm going to bring this case to the court.

Could you tell me which company/person should I take legal action against? What is the exact name, etc how can i reach them out?

If i am willing to take a legal step, can you tell me how is that working? I live in Hungary and i am not sure what i should do, do I have to go to abrod for trials, etc?

Please answer these questions, so at least we can say you helped me just a bit.

Thank you in advance

ThePOGG
May 5, 2020

Hi fleaa,

The decision is out of our hands. The regulator - who we answer to in this type of situation - have informed us that they are satisfied that you have broken operator terms and conditions via the use of prohibited softwares.

As such our involvement in the representation of your claim has concluded. There is nothing further we can do to assist you.

ThePOGG

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Agreement

fleaa consented for ThePOGG to act on their behalf and share the personal information that they provide to ThePOGG with the following agencies for the purposes of resolving their complaint:

  • Guts
  • Malta Gaming Authority
  • Curacao eGaming
  • United Kingdom Gambling Commission
  • MT SecureTrade Limited

December 11, 2019

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland sits to the north-west of mainland Europe. The United Kingdom shares a border with The Republic of Ireland and has coasts on the Atlantic Ocean, Celtic Sea, North Sea, Irish Sea and English Channel. The population of the UK is approaching the 67.6 million mark leading to a fairly densely populated land mass. The gambling sector in the United Kingdom is entirely regulated and licensed by the UKGC – the United Kingdom Gambling Commission. Should players resident In the UK wish to gamble with foreign based operators there is no history of this being treated as a criminal offence, but high levels of protection exist for UK residents playing with UK licensed operators.