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LimoPlay – letting uk players play with no licence and refusing to refund

Ruling

Found for the Casino - Whilst the implementation of the rule restricting UK players has clearly been very poorly handled, by ensuring winners are paid before closing those accounts LimoPlay are treating players fairly and there's no sound justification for returning losses to losers as well.

Player's Complaint

Hello

I’m really hoping you can assist me in someway. Basically I joined LimoPlay last month and deposited and lost which is fine. My issue is in that meantime they changed their t&c to not accepting bets from UK players without notifying me of this and without closing my account.

They then let me deposit £770. When eventually I came across these new terms and contacted chat about licencing they didn’t respond or tell me I couldn’t play. I have sent many emails to have my money reimbursed because as there terms say they do not allow uk players to place real bets.

The have accepted my bets and state they can’t stop players registering and only close accounts after a withdrawal has been actioned when they find out we are uk players. Or when players submit ID. As I didnt win or request a withdrawal and they never asked for ID. They also are saying if I had won they would have paid out, which is easy to say when this didn’t occur.

I have all copies of chats and communication with them and you can read more detail on askgamblers.

I was going to submit a complaint with yourselves but couldn’t find this casino on your list. please see below for full details of my case and email me with your verdict and if you can help me. I have highlighted errors I can see in what they are saying and wrote notes next to them in red so you can see.

I signed up in Jan and deposited without realising they don’t allow uk players. I have since deposited and now found that uk players can’t play with real money yet they have taken over £800 from me. Chat were no help and have escalated it to a manager who I’m still waiting to hear from.

I have spoken to chat who say i will not be refunded and decision from management has been made.

I would like to say that firstly I registered through a site I found online that I presume is an affiliate and it had no mention that LimoPlay was not for UK players. When I registered it allowed me to specify I was in the UK and accepted my address details. At no point did I get any warning that it was out UK jurisdiction like other sites do.

I registered in January and deposited which at that point I had no idea as they deal with GBP an english and as I say allowed me to register. Since going back the other day I deposited £770 only to then find that players from the UK are not allowed to place real bets. Their site t&c state this clearly but they have taken my deposits. Upon asking chat about UK licencing and who to complain to I was greeted with pat responses and told to check t&c etc which I have. They then said they changed the t&c after my registration!! I was not made aware of this fact and no pop up box appeared when I came back to say I must read these and approve these so they have failed to let customers know this which is against all rules that I know. I have saved all chat copies and they also state that they do not check a players account until a withdrawal is made which is not our fault. They are aware at the start of where we are from.

If they do not allow UK players then why do they let them register? If t&c were changed after I registered then how do they expect us to know if they don’t inform us of these changes and furthermore why do they then allow us to deposit.

chat copy – 23:49 Your Question:

23:49 Please wait and one of our operators will be with you shortly.

23:49 You are now chatting with LimoPlay – Chat

23:49 LimoPlay – Chat: Hello, thank you for playing at our casino! How could I help you?

23:50 [EDIT]: Hi I,m not sure if Ive already spoken to you tonight or not?

23:50 [EDIT]: basically i have just found in your t&c If you are a player from the US or any of its states, or UK, you won’t be allowed to play real money wagering games including bitcoins

23:50 [EDIT]: I am from the UK yet your site allowed me to register and deposit £770

23:50 [EDIT]: I therefore want this refunding

23:53 LimoPlay – Chat: i reported about your issue to the head of operations. unfortunately it does not work on day-offs. so on monday you will get a definite answer

23:54 [EDIT]: Obviously I didnt realise this as your site allowed me to register

23:54 [EDIT]: ok thanks

23:54 [EDIT]: what do you think will happen

23:55 LimoPlay – Chat: well, frankly speaking i have no idea

00:01 [EDIT]: oh i really hope this can be resolved

00:01 LimoPlay – Chat: so do i

00:01 [EDIT]: surely if your t&C say you cannot play for real money in the uk I should be refunded

00:01 [EDIT]: sorry for bothering you but Im so stressed out about this

00:02 [EDIT]: I dont mean anything personally and wish you a good night, I just need to be clear and need this sorting asap

00:03 LimoPlay – Chat: i do understand you

12:38 Your Question:

12:38 Please wait and one of our operators will be with you shortly.

12:38 LimoPlay – Chat: Hello, thank you for playing at our casino! How could I help you?

12:38 You are now chatting with LimoPlay – Chat

12:38 [EDIT]: i was told to come back monday to speak to the manager

12:38 [EDIT]: they should have my case notes

12:39 LimoPlay – Chat: Moment, please.

12:42 LimoPlay – Chat: Our senior management’s decision is that no refund will be made, as you lost your money. In case you had any winnings, they would have been payed out in full.

12:42 [EDIT]: I dont think that is the issue here. My point is that your site specifically says you dont allow real bets from UK players

12:45 [EDIT]: 1 – your site let me register when I clearly gave a UK address, 2 you allowed me to deposit and play when terms clearly say this. 3 there was no warning when I registered that you dont allow players from my duristriction which is what other reputable sites do so players are warned in advance

12:45 LimoPlay – Chat: We have added this term after your registration.

12:45 [EDIT]: also i registered a month ago and deposited and my account wasnt closed

12:45 [EDIT]: you since then allowed me to deposit more which is unfair

12:45 LimoPlay – Chat: Moreover, we track and check accounts only when we need to process payouts.

12:45 [EDIT]: Surely you should be checking when a player registers!

12:46 [EDIT]: so what you are saying is that you are happy to take players money then see where they are from. Again this is very unfair. I clearly gave you the correct details upon registering

12:47 LimoPlay – Chat: Unfortunately, the decision was final and there’s nothing that can be changed or done for you.

12:48 [EDIT]: I want this taken further

12:49 [EDIT]: your terms are not clear to people. You cant just add new terms without updating players!

12:49 [EDIT]: Also if you have no UK licence you shouldnt allow player from the uk to register

12:50 LimoPlay – Chat: Please, read our Terms & Condition fully and carefully. Again, the decision was final.

12:50 [EDIT]: I have done!

12:50 [EDIT]: You said you have added t&c since I first registered

12:51 [EDIT]: A box should appear to let customers know this when they come back to your site

12:51 [EDIT]: you have a duty to let players know this

12:52 [EDIT]: I want to speak to the manager or he can contact me via email. This is appallling. You cannot take my money when your terms clearly say UK players cannot play for real money/ Its your sites responsibility to block accounts and to make it impossible for uk players and usa players for that matter to deposit

12:53 [EDIT]: had you had this in place I wouldn’t have been able to deposit with you and would clearly know the rules

12:54 LimoPlay – Chat: Sorry, the decision was final. Nothing will be changed.

12:54 [EDIT]: surely you can understand this. Had I have won you would not have paid out and stated UK players cant play – it works both ways

12:55 [EDIT]: I can surely appeal this decision. I will be taking it further and want details of your management, your arbitrator and site owners so I can follow this up

12:55 [EDIT]: I believe 100% I am correct. i did nothing wrong as your site failed to stop a UK player registering and depositing.

12:57 [EDIT]: I have kept all chat copies over the last few days and when I asked about uk licences etc the chat host didnt mention anything about UK players not being able to play. They skirted around the question and wouldnt answer.

12:59 [EDIT]: I have also spoken to chat at askgamblers and they also said your terms clearly say no UK players so you shouldnt have let me register. I am sure if this had happened to you, you would also be very distressed and find this unacceptable

13:00 [EDIT]: If you are a player from the US or any of its states, or UK, you won’t be allowed to play real money wagering games including bitcoins.

13:00 LimoPlay – Chat: Unfortunately, we cannot help you in any way.

13:00 [EDIT]: This is clear so why did you accept my deposits

13:01 [EDIT]: The fact that you only check players when they withdraw is not on. You have duty to check players upon registration

13:03 [EDIT]: Again I am asking for your complaints email, manager email and your arbitrators so I can take this further. Do you deal with Ecogra? I will also be contacting Softswiss. It is illegal for a company to let uk players play without a licence

13:04 [EDIT]: I have submitted a complaint via ask gamblers which I expect to be followed up

13:07 [EDIT]: are you still there please answer my requests

13:15 [EDIT]: hello

13:15 [EDIT]: please don’t ignore me. I am trying to get this sorted and need assistance

13:16 [EDIT]: I would have hope this could have been resolved amicably

13:19 LimoPlay – Chat: Your claim is going to be escalated to senior management again. It will be considered and you’ll be informed about our decision in up to 48 hours.

13:20 LimoPlay – Chat: Thanks for understanding.

13:23 [EDIT]: I just hope you understand it is not a player fault if you have changed t&c after a player has registered and NOT informed them of changes. Surely you can appreciate this. At any point when you realised I was a UK player you should have terminated my account. . I believe you shouldn’t accept a withdrawal from someone in the UK and your site should have this built in to encompass your rules. If you dont let a player know how are we supposed to be aware.

13:26 [EDIT]: I sincerely hope this gets immediate attention as I dont want to have to escalate this is issue and hope in can be resolved in house. I accept that my first deposits if you were accepting UK would have been played fairly but since you have changed them and failed to note that an existing player is from the UK then deposits after this would be reimbursed.

13:28 [EDIT]: I will leave it in managers hands for now but hope to hear a response by the end of today please

13:29 LimoPlay – Chat: Sure, you will be informed as soon as we have news for you.

13:29 LimoPlay – Chat: Have a good day.

13:32 [EDIT]: Thank you for your understanding, have a good day

Dear [EDIT],

Your claim was considered by our senior management again and, unfortunately, our final decision stays the same. No deposits are going to be refunded, your account stays closed for good without a possibility to reopen or create a new one.

Please, keep in mind that Terms & Conditions can be changed any time we wish with or without notice and it is your full responsibility to update yourself. And by using any of our website you signify that you agree with Terms & Conditions. This also means you indemnify and hold harmless our casino, its directors, employees, partners, and service providers for any cost, expense, loss, damages, claims and liabilities howsoever caused that may arise in relation to your use of our website or participation in the games.

Thanks for understanding!

Best regards,

LimoPlay Casino Support

After receiving this email today I have followed it up with this email as I still believe I haven’t done anything wrong.

Dear sir/madam.

I do not understand how this can be your decision. Yes terms and conditions are there but how are players supposed to know they have changed without notification?

As I have already mentioned, you were clearly aware that I was from the uk, so whenever you changed your terms and conditions, wouldn’t it be considerate for you to at least email players to let them know this. I’m sure you can appreciate this and you can’t expect players to check the t&c every time they log on.

I still firmly believe that I have done nothing wrong and that you should have closed my account after my initial deposits were made and once you changed to not accepting uk players. You must be able to search out uk and USA players and close their accounts before they could possibly violate something they knew nothing about.

What I am failing to understand is how you can say in your t&c that uk players can’t place real bets, but you are accepting them. Whether this is my fault for depositing or not, you have clearly written terms that you do not accept them, but you have accepted them by taking and keeping them.

I am not trying to cause grievances here or blame but you have to accept this is not fair to a player and that the t&c are not true. If you sincerely state no real bets that should mean just that.

I hoped this would be resolved satisfactorily but if this is your final decision I would like to know who I should contact to dispute this. I am willing to negotiate and accept that perhaps the blame lies with both parties based on the facts and that we could reach a compromise to resolve this complaint and move on.

I look forward to your cooperation.

LimoPlay Casino posted on Tuesday, 16. February 2016

Hello [EDIT] !

We are really sorry that you have such negative experience in our casino.

First of all, let me explain why we added this term. As we don’t have UKGC license – we can’t accept players from UK. But unfortunately, we are still working on making this on automatic way(prevent players from UK to register). This is not a players fault

Term about UK was added after your registration. Also please note, we can manage to check players accounts when player request withdrawal or send documents: so as soon as we had noticed that you had been playing from UK your account was closed immediately. [Player’s commentary – This is untrue – I let them know via chat after I saw the new terms. I also didn’t request a withdrawal or submit documents – what they are suggesting is that they will allow uk players to keep depositing until they find out which is unjust ]

Let me kindly point out that this term is thought for players. Player obligated to check terms and conditions, and follow it. Should we issue refund to you it would mean that we also have to confiscate winnings of all players in UK. We don’t want to do it as it would be unjust. We want to be fair to our customers. If you win from UK – we will pay you and then close your account. If you lose – we will close your account when notice that you are playing from UK. [Player’s commentary – They are saying here that they have many UK player – which again is not permitted according to their own t&c]

You lost your money, we didn’t take them away from you. What would you say if you won – unlikely you would ask us to confiscate your funds, right? [Player’s commentary – They would be within their rights to confiscate funds of winning because it says NO UK Players]

Here at LimoPlay we always try to accommodate players’ interests but in this specific case we do not think that we did something wrong.

Our decision is final, and we will not change it.

Best regards

LimoPlay

Dear sir,

Yes you would have everyright to withhold winnings and not pay out because your terms clearly say NO UK players. The fact that you are admitting that you allow UK players to register and play until such point as they process a withdrawal is wrong. If I had won I would expect you to confiscate winnings and refund deposits as this is what your terms mean.

It is not my fault that your system doesn’t have a way to prevent UK players registering. By allowing this it gives us false knowledge that we should be ok to play.

Gambling from the UK is not illegal so this isn’t justified in your terms & conditions.

You say that if a player looses you will close the account when you notice that we are from the UK. How would you know this if we never win or decide to withdraw? I have been registered with you for a month and you failed to realise this after the first time I deposited with you. I have also never been asked to provide documents.

Again this is not my fault that someone isn’t checking players accounts. What you are indicating is that you would be happy to continue taking money from a UK player until which point they go through your withdrawal procedure.

I am very unhappy with your decision and hope in this case as a goodwill gesture you would act accordingly and reimburse me for my deposits on the 12th Feb. I understand you could keep the money from my initial deposits made January but you had enough time between them to realise I was a UK player and inform me of such changes to your t&c. After all you have my email address, phone number etc to contact me.

I would also like to add that you are surely violating your own terms by allowing this. Your chat host says if I had won I would have been paid out, which in itself suggests that you DO accept bets from the uk when your terms say you don’t. You can’t have it both ways. You either accept uk bets and will keep any money deposited if lost and payout on wins, or you don’t accept uk bets and would not pay out if I had won and would reinburse deposits taken in error. It simply can’t be a mixture as this is unfair, unclear and probably illegal.

To quote your t&c

https:­//w­ww.l­im­opl­ay.c­om­/te­rms­-an­d-c­ond­itions “If you are a player from the US or any of its states, or UK, you won’t be allowed to play real money wagering games including bitcoins.”

“In addition your site also states Current Terms and Conditions may be changed by the Company when such need occurs. The Company will notify the players of any significant changes, where possible. However, please visit the Terms and Conditions page regularly to check for possible changes.”

I understand terms may change but If you are changing them to not allowing specific players to bet, then this is a significant change that should have been addressed. You say you will notify players where possible. You had my email address and telephone number so you could have easily informed me of this change or at least put a notification on the site that we should read before playing again, which most casinos have in place.

However again I’m stressing the point that it states a player from the Uk will not be allowed to play real money. You did allow me to play for real money so you have breached your own t&c in this case.

I feel this is clear in black and white and can’t be understood any other way. You do not allow real money wagering from uk players, plain and simple until you find out they are from the uk.

In addition I have complained to the uk and Cyprus gambling commission, betsoft, softswiss and Nabelese holdings. I have heard back from the manager at betsoft who say it is the operators fault for letting uk players play their games and their responsibility to stop this and they will be in touch with Limoplay to make them action it.

[EDIT]

[EDIT]

[EDIT]

[EDIT]

Read the casino review

8 Responses

ThePOGG
Feb 20, 2016

Hi Leyanpark - welcome to ThePOGG.com!

Having read through your complaint I'm not convinced that there's going to be much we can do to assist you.

Firstly, LimoPlay did accept players from the UK at the time you signed up. We've been communicating with them regarding various issues since late last year and it seems likely that this change in policy was as a direct result of that conversation.

That being the case, while LimoPlay technically shouldn't have been accepting UK players without a UKGC license, like many other operators they were. As such you would have been able to play, win or lose, without issue. While we would frown on this practice, to date we're not aware of the UKGC taking any action to prevent this.

If anything we would commend LimoPlay for attempting to behave in a responsible fashion and taking action to restrict UK players when so many of their peers are not doing so.

However, there are clear issues with the manner in which they've implemented this strategy. Firstly they should have emailed all players. Secondly they should have gone through their database and manually locked all UK accounts. These aren't huge tasks and not doing this is absolutely laziness.

By only closing accounts at the point of withdrawal they'll end up having active UK players long after this term is put in place. As such this is at best a half-baked approach to restricting UK players.

However, as long as they are paying winners, there's nothing fundamentally unfair about the situation. It's poor customer service certainly, but not unfair.

To address their current policies fairly they have to either return losses or pay winnings. It's easier to pay winnings and ultimately will result in a lower volume of complaints.

As such, unless there's clear evidence that they are NOT paying winners, there's really nothing to argue for in this instance. Yes this has been a sloppily enforced term that has resulted in a very negative experience, but it hasn't put you at an unfair disadvantage in the gambles you took.

I realise that the above is unlikely to be what you want to hear and I apologise for that, but I don't think we'll be able to help you with this issue.

Best regards,

ThePOGG

Leyanpark
Feb 20, 2016

Dear Pogg, thankyou for you reply. The main issue here is that I also contacted Betsoft whose games are on Limoplays site. These are the games I played namely a game called "Under the bed"
A man called [EDIT] sent me the response below
Hello [EDIT],

My name is [EDIT], and I'm a product manager here at Betsoft Gaming. Thank you for taking the time to write to us!

With regards to your complaint about Limoplay, I have routed the issue to the appropriate account manager for this casino operator. As we are not regulated in the UK, it is the responsibility of the operator to withdraw our games for UK players. Accordingly, we will instruct the operator to comply with the regulations. Thank you for bringing it to our attention.

Best Regards,

[EDIT]
Betsoft Gaming

As you can see he states it was the operators responsibility to withdraw these games. Had this been done I wouldn't have been able to play and therefore I believe I should be refunded to the amount of £770 which is what I played on the betsoft games.

I hope there is something you can do to help me in this matter. I feel that it is their responsibility to close uk accounts, inform us of changes and more so withdraw games that we shouldn't be able to play.

The fact still remains that their terms clearly state uk players will not be able to place real bets. I feel they have breached their own terms and that they should honour my request of a refund.

ThePOGG
Feb 20, 2016

Hi Leyanpark,

That they've not removed the Betsoft games still doesn't change the fundamental fact that had you won they would currently be paying you. Unless there's some actual evidence to suggest you wouldn't have been paid there's no inequity in the bet. It's only at the point where they wouldn't have paid winnings that you would be placed in an unfair situation and at this point I can't see any evidence that you wouldn't have been paid.

I'd also point out again that there are a great many operators that are offering Betsoft games to UK players.

Sorry,

ThePOGG

Leyanpark
Feb 21, 2016

Dear Pogg,

I do understand this but the Betsoft man did clarify that Limoplay should have withdrawn their games. If they had have done this it would have been impossible for me to play them. I cannot comment on whether or not they pay out to uk players as I haven't been through thus process. It just seems disgraceful that they are willing to let us keep playing and depositing and that we may never withdraw. As I've mentioned they had all my details to contact me and inform me of terms changing and they could have closed all uk players at that point which again would have prevented me playing. I believe they are in the wrong for doing this. I would like it if you could contact them on my behalf to negotiate a settlement. Perhaps as a goodwill gesture they should offer me at least half of what was deposited. Terms are supposed to be made clear to players and no where in their terms does it mention anything about uk players winning or loosing, refunds or payouts. It simply states uk players cannot play for real money. The fact that they have broken that term should mean something.

ThePOGG
Feb 22, 2016

Hi Leyanpark,

It would be disgraceful, if they weren't paying UK winners.

The reality is that they've chosen the strategy that's going to generate least complaints (short of managing the restriction properly). To keep a balance they either have to pay winners or return losses to losers. If they look not to pay winners then they'd immediately generate a stack of complaints. This hasn't happened indicating that they are paying winners. Of those who lose only a small number are ever likely to realise they weren't allowed to play. As such this strategy will naturally result in far smaller volumes of complaints.

I understand your concerns, but in reality if you were that worried about only playing with UKGC licensed properties this was a really easy thing to check before you signed up (it's on the bottom of every page of any UK licensed site). Responsibility goes both ways.

I've already looked through the other major dispute mediation sites and there are no other complaints. If winners weren't being paid there would be. If that changes and lots of complaints start appearing demonstrating that this group are not paying winning UK players then I'll re-open this issue. Without that though, you gambled money and lost, that's the sum total of what's happened here.

Sorry we can't be of further help.

ThePOGG

ThePOGG
Feb 22, 2016

Hi Leyanpark,

It would be disgraceful, if they weren't paying UK winners.

The reality is that they've chosen the strategy that's going to generate least complaints (short of managing the restriction properly). To keep a balance they either have to pay winners or return losses to losers. If they look not to pay winners then they'd immediately generate a stack of complaints. This hasn't happened indicating that they are paying winners. Of those who lose only a small number are ever likely to realise they weren't allowed to play. As such this strategy will naturally result in far smaller volumes of complaints.

I understand your concerns, but in reality if you were that worried about only playing with UKGC licensed properties this was a really easy thing to check before you signed up (it's on the bottom of every page of any UK licensed site). Responsibility goes both ways.

I've already looked through the other major dispute mediation sites and there are no other complaints. If winners weren't being paid there would be. If that changes and lots of complaints start appearing demonstrating that this group are not paying winning UK players then I'll re-open this issue. Without that though, you gambled money and lost, that's the sum total of what's happened here.

Sorry we can't be of further help.

ThePOGG

Leyanpark
Feb 22, 2016

Dear The Pogg

When I initially registered they did accept UK players. My point is had they closed my account down when they changed these terms or at least advised me this was the case I wouldn't have been able to lose.
The fact remains that they were sloppy in not doing this and that they didn't withdraw the Betsoft games I was playing, which they were obligated to do as per the email from [EDIT].
Due to this I was allowed to play and lose which is unfair. To me it's black and white, Their terms clearly state If you are a player from the US or any of its states, or UK, you won't be allowed to play real money wagering games including bitcoins.
This is fact and clear on their site but they did allow me to play for real money. I hope you understand where Im coming from. I believe I am entitled to my refund of all deposits since their changed their t&c.

ThePOGG
Feb 22, 2016

Leyanpark,

You're repeating the same information you've already provided several time.

There was nothing unfair about your losses. The rules did change and this has been poorly managed, but you played fair and square and as you would have received winnings had there been any you were NOT place in any from of unfair position.

I've been clear - we don't agree with your position. I'm sorry but there's nothing further we can do to assist you.

ThePOGG

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