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Hi Wildnstone - welcome to ThePOGG.com!

Firstly, can you provide the rest of the email that you've included part of above? Secondly what currency is your account in?

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi ThePogg, it seems like the rest of the complaint was not published somehow. I will add the rest from where it left off. Currency is in GBP.

-----Remainder of the complaint ------

We would also like to inform you: 
According to our T&amp;C MAXIMUM WINNINGS from the cash bonus is 1000 GBP. 
''MAXIMUM WINNINGS RULE
Maximum winnings while using the cash bonus is £1000 (or the equivalent
in another currency). Any winning sum over that amount may be voided at
Mr Win discretion."
The balance will be adjusted shortly and then you can request a withdrawal rest of the amount. 
Regards,
XXXXXXXX
----------------------------------------------

At this point I go and re-read their terms and conditions. They were updated 2018-07-25.

Now The Pogg, please hear out my situation as I did not break any terms.

On terms and conditions site,  it says 
* Maximum winnings from bets made with free spins winnings is €5000 *
*Maximum winnings while using the cash bonus is €1000 (or the equivalent in another currency).*

How weird does this look too you ?

You are initially saying  a player who is given 10€ of free credits is allowed to win 5000€ ?
And the player who deposits actual money and is given a bonus is ONLY allowed to win 1000€ ???

I know there is something totally wrong with their system, the person who edited their terms, or their site in general.

1. Why would the system automatically adjust my 5200GBP to 4500GBP, if the maximum wins are 5000€.
The email also states using the signs £ and 1000GBP.
So I know my player balance has to be adjusted to 5000gbp as there is something fishy with their terms and conditions. As most casino have the auto-adjustment system placed in their system, your balance automatically gets updated according to terms and conditions. Hence I would understand the auto adjustment feature.

2. Her email states 1000£ AND 1000GBP, So why am I seeing € this everywhere when I used to see £.
I decided to go to a local computer shop and read their terms, and guess what ? From a different computer it showed £, I have taken a picture of this even though it is not needed as the email clearly states  £.
Do Mr Wins terms change for each and every player ? The currency is irrelevant at the moment. I just wanted to mention this information as it might help.

3. None of the players were warned regarding a term change, usually casinos have a pop up regarding terms that have changed, but there was nothing like this.


I just want Mr Pogg to help me out with their maximum win rule, because as far as I know their maximum win used to be 5000 with a bonus ! and their maximum win with free spins used to be 1000.
I have a very strong feeling that the it department of the site, made a mistake between the two as it does not make sense how free spins given to client can let them to win and withdraw 5000.
And also due to the system auto adjusting the amount from 5200 to 4500, which shows proof that there is an issue with their wording.

Please help The Pogg.

I would like to also mention after my emails to  them regarding this.

It seems like they have removed the weekly promo they had.

It also shows that they have update their terms again on August 2 2018.

Hello Thepogg, 

Has there been any advancements regarding this situation ?


Thanks !

Hi Wildinstone,

Firstly, there is no problem with the limits set in these terms. The maximum allowed win is 5k when playing with free spins and 1k when playing with bonuses. This coincides with a welcome package that is made up of free spins rather than bonuses. So effectively the operator is likely looking to provide a higher maximum win on the welcome bonus and reduced maximum win on bonuses that are issued after this point.

However, we can confirm that this term has been changes sometime reasonably recently as the Google Cache of their terms page does not show the 1k term, applying the 5k maximum to all bonuses and free spins, and the currency issue should be looked into.

Can you please forward screenshots of the terms in GBP to <a href="mailto:complaints@thepogg.com" rel="nofollow">complaints@thepogg.com</a>.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi ThePogg, 

If I understand correctly, you are implying that I should still get my 5000 paid right ?

Mr Win gives out 999 free spins OR a bonus of 100GBP, but all it says is that the free spins will give me a maximum withdrawal of 5000 but a deposit and bonus will only give you 1000. What if I received 10 free spins at a later date and managed to win 5000 ? Will that term apply ? What if I took the 100 % up to 100GBP offer, will I only withdraw 1000 ? (screenshot sent) - This statement applies to the welcome bonus.

I had to create this complaint as I don't find it fair and justifiable that my winnings are confiscated due to them changing their terms.

As mentioned previously, I wasn't notified of the changes, and I'm sure other players weren't too. I played knowing that my maximum winnings can be up to 5000.

Their terms have changed twice since the complaint was posted, once on august 2, and on august 3 2018.

I simply want my original balance to be paid to me and players to be notified regarding a change.

I do have the latest screenshots, with the currency issues, you should have them soon.


Thanks

Hi,

I wanted to verify if you have received all the pictures and know if there has been any progression?


Thank you

Thepogg, 

I am sorry for disturbing you, however I would appreciate some sort of update.

Thank you

Hi Wildinstone,

I've now discussed this issue at length with the MrWin team.

Firstly, the term in question was added on the 25th of July, your play took place on the 30th. While I appreciate that change alerts are good practice, they are not required by any license that MrWin hold and ultimately it is your responsibility to ensure you read the terms before you accept any bonus. The terms for bonuses vary between promotions and cannot be relied upon to be consistent in all instances. That being the case I'm afraid that 1k would be all you are entitled to.

Secondly, with regard to the currency issue. I can confirm that there is an issue with the MrWin site where the main terms and conditions are displaying correctly in € while the bonus terms are displaying in £. My understanding is that you will be entitled to the full £1k rather than €1k.

I'm sorry we cannot deliver the news that you wanted.

ThePOGG

The Pogg,

I have mentioned quite a few valid points regarding this situation, do none them raise any sort of unethical behaviour ?

1. Terms were updated on the 25th of July.
- None of their players were notified.

2. Their own support did not know about this issue until I had gone snooping around for my  missing 700 £.

3.My balance of 5200 £ was corrected to 4500 £.    Why ?Because it was the equivalent to 5000€. Otherwise if the system had been in place it would have corrected it self to 1000€.

4. My balance was adjusted to 1000, after I had raised the issue quite a few times over chat and support. This was adjusted 3 days later. 

5. After my issue was raised, they completely removed the weekly deposit offer, they changed their bonus terms on august 2, 2018, then again on the 3rd of august.

6. Regarding their 1000£ maximum cashout term. Where it it says  "Any winning sum over that amount may be voided at Mr Win discretion. "
Might as well just say "Any sum over 1000 WILL BE voided"
The "maybe" is just fake hope to the people who win over 1k.


I know I'm morally and ethically right. I raised this situation at another forum before posting here and everyone said to bring your issue to Thepogg as it was a valid complaint.

5k is a life changing amount of money. I simply don't know what to do anymore.


Thank you

Another valuable information is that you mentioned 
" However, we can confirm that this term has been changes sometime reasonably recently as the Google Cache of their terms page does not show the 1k term, applying the 5k maximum to all bonuses and free spins, and the currency issue should be looked into."

Why would this not apply to me?

There are issues with their terms in the condition in the first place. Their currency was not right, sometimes it was one or the other, the 5k maximum win rule was applied to all bonus and free sins ..

This is considered to be a major flaw in their system.

Hi Wildinstone,

1. No regulator currently requires operators to update players as/when terms change. Some do, some don't. This would only be a requirement at the point where the introduction of a new rule would have direct implications for the account as it stands when the terms change. As these are not general terms that are applicable to all players, but bonus terms that are only applicable to you if you claim a bonus, the onus falls to you to ensure your are familiar with the terms associated with a bonus <strong>at the time you claim it</strong>.

2-5. The terms are the terms. Whether or not support made an error during the management of the issue doesn't change the payment departments right to enforce the terms as published. If the error support had made directly resulted in you violating bonus terms this may be consequential (telling you that you could exceed the maximum allowed bet for example). But an error with managing the application of the rules after the fact of your play, but before a payout was actually made, is inconsequential. It may be frustrating to you but it's not grounds to demand payment.

6. Largely I'd agree which is why this site always treats this type of win cap as absolute when assessing bonus values, however I have encountered numerous occasions where operators have chosen to disregard these win caps and pay full balances. That is entirely at the operator's discretion however.

With regard to the Google Cache - this would have been relevant had the terms been changed AFTER you had played. All I said previously was that we could confirm that the terms had been changed "recently". Specifically the Google Cache was dated the 13 Jun 2018 04:04:56 GMT. At that point we could confirm that the £1k term did not exist. However there is a long period between that point and the 30th of July when you played during which the terms could have changed and would legitimately apply to you. And that's what's happened.

While I sympathise with your frustration the term was in place both before you played and before you claimed the bonus. As such you are subject to it. I agree with you regarding the currency issue and if the operator were trying to only pay €1k we would be arguing this point. But the operator are paying £1k, so while there may be a currency display issue this is not being enforced to your detriment and as such isn't in contention. 

ThePOGG

If I had won something between 13th of June and  30th of June, my winnings would have been voided ?

Hi Wildinstone,

No, if you had won between the 13th of June and the 24th of July, the £5k win cap would have applied. The £1k win cap was implemented on the 25th, so from that point on that's the cap that applies.

ThePOGG

Ok,

At this point you have confirmed that I am only eligible for 1k and nothing can be done for the missing 4k.

Is there anything else I can do ? Or my case is pretty much done ?

Hi Wildinstone,

You can take your complaint to MrWin's regulator the MGA, but in my strong opinion you'll receive the same response you have here.

Sorry I can't offer a more positive conclusion.

ThePOGG

The term in question was put in place before this player claimed their bonus and the currency issue has not been detrimental to the player.

I play every week with Mr Win and never had a problem with them. I am verified player too.
 
 What I read today was just mind blowing.
 
 I won around 5200gbp today, while my wager was almost completed, my balance was adjusted around 4500gbp.
 
 Obviously I went on chat for help the lady in the picture told me she didn't understand, and when I explained to her she said she will escalate this issue with the department and get back to me.
 After a while I realized, Mr win always had a 5000 withdrawal limit, so my balance should be been adjusted to 5000. However on their terms and conditions it says 5000€ now, when it used to say 5000£, so I converted 5000€ to £ on xe.com and it gave me something like 4560£. At this point it all made sense, but something else is off too. The currency on their site is also buggy. Because there are times I log in and it says 5£ and sometimes 5€, which is quite suspicious. However my bet at Mr win has always been 5£.
 
 I then get an email from her - ----- --------&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
 Hi XXXXXXXXXX,
 The reason, why your balance didn't show up the same like you had on the bonus balance is because of the maximum limit on the bonus.
 We would also like to inform you:
 According to our T

MrWin - Discrepancy found in their Bonus Terms and Conditions

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