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Smart Live - Taking too long for payment

Ruling

Resolved - Smart Live claim the player broke the max bet rule, which by the player's own recollection seems likely. Player asserted that the rule was not present at the time they played. ThePOGG contact Smart Live's regulator the UKGC who asked us to get the player to contact them directly. Player became unresponsive at this stage. We presume that the player has either resolved this successfully through the UKGC or accepted that they broke the max bet rule.

Read our Smart Live Casino Review.

Player's Complaint

I played at Smart Live casino quite some time ago and won a substantial amount of money. There was a bonus involved but all terms were met and the casino has never disputed that the money has been won fairly and squarely. I have submitted all ID requested several times over and it has all been verified. I have completed telephone verification and spoken several times with the casino. I have emailed countless times and contacted chat countless times. I still have access to my account but can't move the money once inside (deposit, withdraw and transfer are disabled). A message says ID is required. My e-mails are not answered. Chat say the financial department need to approve my ID but I cannot contact them and they cannot tell me how long it will take. So I can do nothing. I will not say how long it has been as I would be nice if this could still be settled amicably. Otherwise I can go into more detail.

Read the casino review

16 Responses

User icon
ThePOGG
May 12, 2014

Hi skelgmx - welcome to ThePOGG.com.

Before I can do anything to help, I need you to provide the following details;

- the username and email address you use with Smart Live

- the withdrawal size that's being contested

- it would help if you could forward on any email communications you've had with Smart Live to [email protected]

Once I have these things I'll contact Smart Live and see what I can find out.

Thanks

ThePOGG

User icon
ThePOGG
May 28, 2014

Hi skelgmx,

Could you confirm for me the bonus you claimed, the games you played and the bet sizes you placed?

Thanks

ThePOGG

User icon
skelgmx
June 1, 2014

It's hard to remember as it was nearly 1 year ago but having checked my email I see that a few days earlier they offered me a 150% bonus up to £450 and I made a deposit of £300. So I think I can assume this was the bonus (£450). I played only live roulette (that may have been the only choice within the terms). Again, difficult to recall but I think I probably played £750 - £850 per spin for the entire session.

They won't let me into the account anymore to check and they won't discuss it with me either.

User icon
ThePOGG
June 2, 2014

Hi skelgmx,

What I need you to do is email Smart Live and request your game history for the last bonus you played, then forward this record on to me.

I'll contact Smart Live to push them to comply with your request.

Thanks

ThePOGG

User icon
skelgmx
June 2, 2014

Ok I have made the request.

User icon
skelgmx
June 3, 2014

No response from them so I sent the request again today

User icon
skelgmx
June 3, 2014

They responded today, but clearly they do not want to play ball:

Having checked for you, I can confirm that we will not be able to disclose any of this information as your account has now been suspended indefinitely by the security team. Please note that if your account was still opened, we would have been able to provide you with this game play or bet history.

User icon
ThePOGG
June 4, 2014

Hi skelgmx,

I've contacted Smart Live casino about this and am awaiting a response.

Thanks

ThePOGG

User icon
skelgmx
June 10, 2014

Hi

Any word from these guys?

User icon
ThePOGG
June 11, 2014

Hi skelgmx,

I've had nothing further back from Smart Live - they are clearly unwilling to discuss this issue any further.

What I was told is that they believe that you broke their maximum wager term;

"Smart Live Gaming reserves the right to withhold any withdrawals and/or confiscate all winnings in case a player places single bets equal to or in excess of 25% of the value of the bonus before the wagering requirements for the bonus have been met."

Your guess that you were betting "£750-850/spin" would certainly seem to support that, however without reviewing the play history I can't confirm whether this is the case.

I have taken the liberty of contact the UKGC who regulate Smart Live's Live casino product to see clarification on their requirements for casinos to provide players with their transaction history. They asked me to ask you to contact them directly at [email protected]

If you decide to contact them I would appreciate it if you could let me know the outcome.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

User icon
skelgmx
June 11, 2014

I don't know how long they have had that 25% rule but I am sure it was not in place last August. In the last 9 months they never once suggested to me that I had broken any terms or conditions whatsoever. The full balance remained for all this time. I will contact the gaming commission.

Best regards.

User icon
ThePOGG
June 25, 2014

Hi skelgmx,

Have you managed to contact the UKGC?

Thanks,

ThePOGG

User icon
ThePOGG
June 30, 2014

Hi skelgmx,

Did you manage to get in contact with the UKGC?

Thanks,

ThePOGG

User icon
ThePOGG
July 7, 2014

Hi skelgmx,

Has there been any further progress with this issue? If I don't hear from you I'm going to assume that this issue has been resolved and close this complaint on Friday the 11th of July.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

User icon
skelgmx
November 25, 2014

Hi Pogg,

Some time has passed but I have since obtained a copy of the casinos terms and conditions dating back to when I played here. And the maximum bet rule had not been added to their terms at that point. This is something they introduced later in the year. I have in the last few days pointed this out to Smartlive who are insisting that they will not discuss and I should take the complaint elsewhere (IBAS in this case). But this is new information and it would take them less than 1 minute to cross reference their rules from back then against the reason for not paying now. I do not think this is an unreasonable request. Far from it. It took them over 1 year to come up with the idea that I broke this rule. I w had to be the most patient player on the planet. I think they could do this, I think they should do this.

User icon
ThePOGG
November 26, 2014

Hi skelgmx - I'm going to respond with the same email I sent you on the 18th of June;

"Hi,

I don't mean to be unkind, but my thoughts are that you're stuffed.

If that screenshot is used, while it may not restrict the betsize, as you correctly assert it does restrict the deposit method you used. To say that the Moneybookers term wasn't there takes us back to the original problem where you'd need a screen shot from the time you played showing it wasn't present. Without the screenshot there's no way of asserting you didn't break a max bet term, but the screen shot shows you breaking another rule. Either way the casino is not going to pay.

As to whether you accepted the bonus, acceptance is a passive term. Yes it preferable when casinos offer a little pop-up accept or decline option but I don't think it could be reasonably argued that you didn't notice the bonus funds in your account. If you've acknowledged them there and not contacted support to have them removed you've by definition 'accepted' the bonus's presence.

Your best option is still to speak to the UKGC - I know that they're in the process of hammering out exactly which organizations will be dealing with disputes for them so there may be a short delay, but they'll be able to give you the most accurate guidance.

Best regards,

ThePOGG"

Given that there was a restriction on the deposit method you used there really isn't anything I can do to help.

As to the UKGC - IBAS is the correct body to contact. Smart Live will not discuss complaints with me, so even if I thought the evidence you've mentioned did make a difference to the case there's nothing further I could do to help.

Sorry,

ThePOGG

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skelgmx consented for ThePOGG to act on their behalf and share the personal information that they provide to ThePOGG with the following agencies for the purposes of resolving their complaint:

May 12, 2014

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