Winner casino - Very Vague terms and conditions
Ruling
Found for the Player - Winner casino are ignoring their own terms and conditions and making the rules up as they go along with respect to the additional wagering requirement that this player has been subjected to. Attempts to communicate with Winner casino were unfruitful with Winner insisting that they'd manage the issue internally. Winner casino are enforcing non-existent terms and should be avoided by all players.
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Player's Complaint
Hello,
I am pretty sure this is not me being moronic, I have won some money at winner casino and have now been slapped with a wagering requirement of a staggering £257,680!!!!
They have added a very contradictive term recently under section 7 of their bonus terms.
Here it is;
7. Winner Casino limits the maximum bet amount that players may bet using first & second deposit bonus funds.
The maximum amount per bet is GBP25 on any given game.
Withdrawals of winnings won using bonus funds bets higher than the limited amount, will only be approved if the bet was placed after completing the wagering requirements.
Any winnings won using first & second deposit bonus funds bets higher than the limited amount, before wagering requirements on the first & second deposit bonus has been completed, will be subjected to further wagering requirements.
The unapproved withdrawal amount will be issued into the players bonus balance, and, in addition to the maximum bet size of GBP25 a further x12 wagering requirements will be attached.
So I was placing £100 hands on video slots and won money and understood there would be extra wagering attached which I was prepared for...but not to that magnitude ! its the part where it says 'the unapproved withdrawal amount' ie my whole balance is x12 - my balance was 12,692x12 = 152,304...but oh no Winner casino seem to think the withdrawal amount being every single penny won on a bet of more than 25gbp...they have calculated I won in excess of 19,000gbp on bets of over 25gbp which could be correct but again how on earth could a customer check this ? more importantly if they had written the terms more clearer to say like [EDIT] (THE MANAGER) told me that its every win over 25gbp which translated into Winners language is 'withdrawl amount' is then added all up together and THEN x12 wagering.
I am sorry but this is far from clear on the terms and conditions and should be written in a better and clearer manner.
I have told them to come back to me with a more realistic wagering amount as I will not be wagering this obscene amount as I said I would be happy to wager my balance x12 and that's it as they need to update their terms to make it crystal clear to customers. They have to appreciate this is such an extensive term and to summarise into one sentence and say 'The unapproved withdrawal amount will be issued into the players bonus balance, and, in addition to the maximum bet size of GBP25 a further x12 wagering requirements will be attached.' is far from clear.
In addition to this I spoke with a support rep on the phone last night called [EDIT] who lacked any knowledge of his companies promotions because when I had to teach him his job regarding the terms as I was aware I had to wager more he answered more than three times 'sir you have completed the wagering fully' and as I was so sceptical of this I made him send me an email confirming this which he did.
In light of all these phone calls and misinformation....
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Hi STRONG1,
I'd start by saying that I do agree with you that the term is too vague and is not being interpreted the way that it's written down. The term isn't in fact vague, it's very clear - the "unapproved withdrawal amount" will be subject to an additional 12x wagering. The withdrawal amount was £12692, that's what went unapproved. What they're doing is multiplying the total winnings generated by bets over £25 which is a very different thing to the "unapproved withdrawal amount".
So I do agree with you. I don't however thing that there's much chance of resolving this issue.
The reality is that term 7 is in place to protect against bonus abuse. Most casinos carry a similar term but will simply confiscate the balance if you exceed the maximum bet. You've clearly chosen to exceed the maximum bet and expected to have to play the additional wagering requirement. The short of it is that you will be viewed as a bonus abuser by the casino and I would expect zero sympathy from them. They are clearly looking for a way to impose the harshest possible interpretation of the terms to make clear that they do not like the way you've played (not a plausible interpretation but that just emphasizes my point). As such I wouldn't expect to be able to gain much traction in this discussion.
Further to this I'm not on great terms with the Winner group of casinos. They have been making an effort in recent times to repair the reputational damage they've done to themselves by going back and responding to all the complaints that have been posted against them at Ask Gamblers and have approached me repeatedly about gaining more positive representation here. My response to this has been fairly straight forward - they'd need to offer an explanation for why they've copied terms from another casino and they'd need to change their Notarized ID policy which they vastly overuse in my opinion.
All in all I expect this to be a very difficult complaint to make any headway with. None-the-less I will be happy to try, but before I can do so I need you to provide me your username and email address at Winner so we can identify your account.
Thanks,
ThePOGG