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Winner casino – Very Vague terms and conditions

Ruling

Found for the Player - Winner casino are ignoring their own terms and conditions and making the rules up as they go along with respect to the additional wagering requirement that this player has been subjected to. Attempts to communicate with Winner casino were unfruitful with Winner insisting that they'd manage the issue internally. Winner casino are enforcing non-existent terms and should be avoided by all players.

Read our Winner Casino Review.

Player's Complaint

Hello,

I am pretty sure this is not me being moronic, I have won some money at winner casino and have now been slapped with a wagering requirement of a staggering £257,680!!!!

They have added a very contradictive term recently under section 7 of their bonus terms.

Here it is;

7. Winner Casino limits the maximum bet amount that players may bet using first & second deposit bonus funds.

The maximum amount per bet is GBP25 on any given game.

Withdrawals of winnings won using bonus funds bets higher than the limited amount, will only be approved if the bet was placed after completing the wagering requirements.

Any winnings won using first & second deposit bonus funds bets higher than the limited amount, before wagering requirements on the first & second deposit bonus has been completed, will be subjected to further wagering requirements.

The unapproved withdrawal amount will be issued into the players bonus balance, and, in addition to the maximum bet size of GBP25 a further x12 wagering requirements will be attached.

So I was placing £100 hands on video slots and won money and understood there would be extra wagering attached which I was prepared for...but not to that magnitude ! its the part where it says 'the unapproved withdrawal amount' ie my whole balance is x12 - my balance was 12,692x12 = 152,304...but oh no Winner casino seem to think the withdrawal amount being every single penny won on a bet of more than 25gbp...they have calculated I won in excess of 19,000gbp on bets of over 25gbp which could be correct but again how on earth could a customer check this ? more importantly if they had written the terms more clearer to say like [EDIT] (THE MANAGER) told me that its every win over 25gbp which translated into Winners language is 'withdrawl amount' is then added all up together and THEN x12 wagering.

I am sorry but this is far from clear on the terms and conditions and should be written in a better and clearer manner.

I have told them to come back to me with a more realistic wagering amount as I will not be wagering this obscene amount as I said I would be happy to wager my balance x12 and that's it as they need to update their terms to make it crystal clear to customers. They have to appreciate this is such an extensive term and to summarise into one sentence and say 'The unapproved withdrawal amount will be issued into the players bonus balance, and, in addition to the maximum bet size of GBP25 a further x12 wagering requirements will be attached.' is far from clear.

In addition to this I spoke with a support rep on the phone last night called [EDIT] who lacked any knowledge of his companies promotions because when I had to teach him his job regarding the terms as I was aware I had to wager more he answered more than three times 'sir you have completed the wagering fully' and as I was so sceptical of this I made him send me an email confirming this which he did.

In light of all these phone calls and misinformation....

Read the casino review

6 Responses

ThePOGG
Jun 28, 2014

Hi STRONG1,

I'd start by saying that I do agree with you that the term is too vague and is not being interpreted the way that it's written down. The term isn't in fact vague, it's very clear - the "unapproved withdrawal amount" will be subject to an additional 12x wagering. The withdrawal amount was £12692, that's what went unapproved. What they're doing is multiplying the total winnings generated by bets over £25 which is a very different thing to the "unapproved withdrawal amount".

So I do agree with you. I don't however thing that there's much chance of resolving this issue.

The reality is that term 7 is in place to protect against bonus abuse. Most casinos carry a similar term but will simply confiscate the balance if you exceed the maximum bet. You've clearly chosen to exceed the maximum bet and expected to have to play the additional wagering requirement. The short of it is that you will be viewed as a bonus abuser by the casino and I would expect zero sympathy from them. They are clearly looking for a way to impose the harshest possible interpretation of the terms to make clear that they do not like the way you've played (not a plausible interpretation but that just emphasizes my point). As such I wouldn't expect to be able to gain much traction in this discussion.

Further to this I'm not on great terms with the Winner group of casinos. They have been making an effort in recent times to repair the reputational damage they've done to themselves by going back and responding to all the complaints that have been posted against them at Ask Gamblers and have approached me repeatedly about gaining more positive representation here. My response to this has been fairly straight forward - they'd need to offer an explanation for why they've copied terms from another casino and they'd need to change their Notarized ID policy which they vastly overuse in my opinion.

All in all I expect this to be a very difficult complaint to make any headway with. None-the-less I will be happy to try, but before I can do so I need you to provide me your username and email address at Winner so we can identify your account.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

ThePOGG
Jul 18, 2014

Hi STRONG1,

To keep you up-to-date, I have heard back from Winner casino and I'm currently discussing how to move this issue forward.

I'll let you know as soon as I have more information.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

ThePOGG
Jul 24, 2014

Hi STRONG1,

Winner casino have finally got back to me and they inform me that they’ve been in contact with you to resolve this issue. Can you confirm that this is the case and if so what progress has been made?

Thanks,

ThePOGG

STRONG1
Jul 30, 2014

Hello,

this is kind of related to the original complaint I raised previously witht he wagering...I reluctantly agreed to wager the 257,000 on my account and on numerous occasions when I calculated the wagering as done the casino told me there was still more to wager...ie for example on the 5th july I was asked to wager a further 3,000 I think...I wagered this amount on slots for a support member to confirm I had achieved this via email (so I had written proof) I have this confirmation as evidence and she advised I could withdraw the funds as it was completed and I told her to check with the security team who manually calculate the wagering to double check, they also agreed that it was complete. I requested a withdrawal on the 5th July and over a week later I was told I was misinformed that the wagering was complete and that I have to wager a further 3,800gbp !!! I spoke with a manager a week ago who would look into it and was informed this morning (a week later !!) that I indeed need to wager a further 3,800...this is the third time I have been told wagering was complete and then told it was not ??? how can I be sure if I wager 3,800 this is not going to be the end of it ? as all I can do is set up autoplay on slots and work out how many spins I need to do, that is what I did previously and calculated it correctly, I do not trust winner casino calculations at all to be honest...if a specialised security team who calculate the wagering confirmed this why are they keep coming back with fictitious wagering requirements...I have wagered in excess of 258,000 as I have calculated this myself and had it confirmed as done. I will not wager anymore and urge winner to process this withdrawal as this is blatant delaying tactics to pay my winnings.

ThePOGG
Jul 31, 2014

Hi STRONG1,

I'm afraid there's not going to be much more that I can do for you in this case. Winner casino have made it clear that they do not intend to discuss complaints with this site. Given that they've recently turned a leaf and are trying to repair their damaged reputation with Ask Gamblers, I can only assume they've based the decision not to work with us on the fact that I've told them on a couple of occasions that to gain positive placement on ThePOGG they would need to address several other issues surrounding their brand beyond unanswered complaints. In other words, Winner aren't prepared to work with us because they don't see an easy payoff for themselves.

In my opinion you basically have no other choice but to complete the bogus wagering requirement that Winner have imposed. The only other option available to you would be to contact Winner's regulator in Antigua. I'd be happy to assist you with this process but I've no personal experience with this body and do not know anyone who has so I can't comment on how successful this would action likely to be.

I intend to close this complaint and write up the full report tomorrow.

ThePOGG

ThePOGG
Aug 04, 2014

Given that I've received no further communication from Winner casino I'm closing this complaint in favour of the player.

The player, by their own admission, has exceeded the stipulated maximum allowed bet while playing with a bonus. However Winner casino's terms and conditions at the time of play were very clear regarding what would happen if a player chose to exceed this maximum;

7. Winner Casino limits the maximum bet amount that players may bet using first & second deposit bonus funds.

The maximum amount per bet is GBP25 on any given game.

Withdrawals of winnings won using bonus funds bets higher than the limited amount, will only be approved if the bet was placed after completing the wagering requirements.

Any winnings won using first & second deposit bonus funds bets higher than the limited amount, before wagering requirements on the first & second deposit bonus has been completed, will be subjected to further wagering requirements.

The unapproved withdrawal amount will be issued into the players bonus balance, and, in addition to the maximum bet size of GBP25 a further x12 wagering requirements will be attached.

The player is absolutely correct in the calculation of what their additional wagering requirement should have been, their unapproved withdrawal multiplied by 12. The unapproved withdrawal was £12692, so the additional wagering requirement should have been 12692x12 = £152304. Instead Winner casino are applying the 12x multiplier to the Gross wins with bets of £25 or more (wins without deducting losses). Nothing in the above terms gives them any justification for this action and as such we consider this to be enforcement of terms that do NOT exist.

I do have reason to suspect that this complaint and another against Winner casino that's currently in progress are connected in an intentionally deceptive fashion, but the reasons I have are no where near strong enough to be in any way conclusive and as Winner casino have chosen not to engage with our mediation process I can only base our report on the evidence we have.

A very disappointing result and a perfect example of why Winner casino still hold a negative reputation with ThePOGG.

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