18 Bet - won't pay legal playing

Hi viniz113 - welcome back!

Could you give me the username you use at 18Bet?

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi viniz113,

I'm still discussing this issue with 18Bet. Currently your deposit should have been returned to your account. I'm still waiting on a final position on your winnings.

I would suggest withdrawing your deposit just now and I'll let you know when I have more information.

ThePOGG

Hi viniz113,

I've discussed this issue thoroughly with 18Bet casino.

Firstly regarding your deposit; 18Bet inform me that the money, while it was 'held' for them by your card provider, was never actually transferred. As such they've simply cancelled the request and you should either see on your card statement nothing being taken or a refund of the $490.

The next section of my response will be written as a report to provide information for other readers, but I will have more to address directly to you towards the end.

Regarding the winnings; 18Bet have gone through this issue with me. Initially they confiscated the funds due to the player's use of the Martingale progression betting system as they deem this to be 'non-recreational'.

In the first instance, Martingale by itself does not overcome the inherent House Edge built into every casino game. It may be possible to gain an edge over the casino using this system with bonuses due to the potentially high variance, but it would not be considered optimum if that was the intention. Far easier would simply be raising the bet size and given that there was no bet size restriction (!) there was nothing to prevent the player taking this approach.

Secondly, 'non-recreational' fails to define what behaviours it's prohibiting. If I approached any person unfamiliar with online gambling, from reading the term 18 Bet have enforced they wouldn't be able to define what the player has done wrong. As such this term cannot be considered valid under contract law.

Given the above nothing about the initial confiscation is in any way reasonable.

After the initial confiscation the player was sent an email detailing why their winnings were voided referencing the 'non-recreational term'. The player then went on to use the Martingale system again, this time with only their deposit. This resulted in 18 Bet confiscating the player's deposit as well.

18 Bet feel that give the player's continued use of this betting strategy after a warning that this was fair action to take. As you will be able to discern from above, they have agreed to return the player's deposit. They have also accepted that their terms are not clear enough in this regard. They are not however willing to return the player's winnings.

I do accept, given that 18 Bet directly told the player there was something wrong with the way they played, that it was absolutely unwise to continue playing in exactly same fashion after this warning. This however does not justify the actions taken given that the term is not valid in the first instance, the warning offered no further clarification of what the issue was and that any player that uses progression betting systems without bonuses should be welcomed with open arms by any casino that understands the mathematics of the games they are offering.

At the time this issue occurred I can confirm that 18Bet held our Deposit Guarantee seal. I can also confirm that this player DID sign-up through this site.

The Deposit Guarantee clearly stipulates that;

"All casinos agree not to seize any player funds unless clearly defined terms have been breached by the player."

By their own admission, the term in question does not meet the above criteria. In this instance I don't feel that 18 Bet have wilfully ignored the term they agreed to I personally feel that they simply did not understand the purpose and intention of this term. To this end I have added examples of clearly defined terms to the Deposit Guarantee terms.

However 18Bet have clearly and unquestionable seized fund based on a vague term, falling neatly into the category of 'Spirit of the Bonus' seizures. As such not only will they lose the Deposit Guarantee seal, but they will be moved to 'Not Recommended' status.

Coming back to the Deposit Guarantee - under the terms of the Seal we only guarantee deposits made with sealed casinos against this type of behaviour. The reason for this is fairly basic - we're not nearly as well financed any casino, payouts deriving from the Seal come directly out of my pocket. If a breach of seal terms occurred with a sizeable win (four or more figures), it's very possible that this site could end up going under if we tried to guarantee the win as well. As 18Bet are returning the player's deposit, by the terms of the seal there's no further action required from us.

However, the purpose of the seal is to prevent exactly this type of situation occurring and in all honesty I feel that in this type of situation the player is entitled to their winnings alongside their deposit. The money was won fairly without breach of terms and should be paid. As such, and given that the winnings fall within a bracket that can be reasonably afforded by this site, I'm going to honour the player's winnings myself.

Looking to the future, I will endeavour treat similar claims against the Deposit Guarantee seal in the same manner. I will not however be building a guarantee of winnings into the terms and conditions of the seal in the immediate future and our treatment of winnings will be both at my discretion and managed on a case by case basis. The bottom line is while I will do my best to see right any player mistreated by a sealed venue (assuming they have signed up through this site), I will not put this site's future in jeopardy to pay out winnings.

ThePOGG

I would like to compliment again The Pogg. They refunded a 490$ deposit that was illegally taken from me. Casino stated that a was a non-recreationnal player,wich made no sense at all. I was playing Immortal Romance slots and using the Martingale betting system at Electronic Roulette at that. Wich almost never works. Just imagine taking deposits and winnings from anyone using Martingale...sooooo ridiculous. But thank's to the Pogg , got my deposit back.This guy, is great , always willing to help if you're case is legit.